General Care Discussion :: White places on shell - fungus, shell rot, mineral deposits?

[thebernreuter]

My turtle has had these white places on its shell for a couple of months now. I can't tell what they are. They are not noticeably soft and have no discernable odor, so I don't think it is shell rot. I'm not certain though. It hasn't made any noticeable healing progress or worsening since I first started following the condition. Based on appearance alone, does anyone have any insight? I've attached a photo. It's from a month ago, but he currently looks exactly the same.



Background:

My turtle had a considerable fall once. He escaped and fell four feet to the floor, possibly hitting some hard surfaces on the way down. Nobody saw the incident. Afterwards, I noticed what could have been some scratches from the fall, but I can't say for sure if they were not there before the fall. All of a sudden, a few weeks later these white patches were as big as they are now.

I use Brita-filtered water in my tank and do 80% changes every one to two weeks. I change the filter regularly. He's got a floating turtle dock with a UVB light and 91 degree basking temperature. My fish have had ich - I don't know if turtles are susceptible to this parasite or not, but I have been treating the tank with dilute salt solution for a few weeks. This has had no noticeable impact on the white patches.

[thebernreuter]

How do you attach a photo?

[SpotsMama]

Try this:

http://www.redearslider.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1811

[thebernreuter]

They can't be any bigger than 80 x 80 pixels? I may as well just let you guys guess. You won't be able to see anything on an avatar-sized image.

[steve]

AVATARS need to be around 80x80. You can post regular sized images in topics/posts.

[thebernreuter]

Aha! Makes more sense. If it needs to be more in focus, I can try it with the close-up uber-focus setting. That's not what it's called, but you know.

[SpotsMama]

Jon, if I were you I'd get some hibiclense and treat those spots as if they were fungus. Hibiclense is an antiseptic wash for humans that you can get at the pharmacy (it's OTC) at places like Walgreen's. Get a Q Tip, dip it in a little hibiclense, put it on the spots, let it sit for a few minutes, then rinse real well and put your turtle back in the tank. Repeat every day for several days.

Just my two cents. It couldn't hurt and if it's anything bacterial or fungal the hibiclense should stop it.

Here's a good thread on the subject of using hibiclense:

http://www.redearslider.com/forum/viewt ... hibiclense

Be sure and read all the way to the bottom.

Lots of things can cause shell damage besides fungus and bacteria - retained scutes (not shedding), vitamin deficiency, injury, etc. To keep his beautiful shell healthy, be sure and cover all the bases - clean water, good lighting, good diet, etc. Make sure he's basking on a regular basis so his shell gets a chance to dry out - very important.

Good luck!

[Breigh]

My frick has the same kind of spots... I'm also curious as to what it is

[marisa]

Too bad you can't tell if his scutes had anything on them before he took his fall. Does any of the white flake off if you gently rub at it? Try the Hibiclens---it won't hurt and may help.

[thebernreuter]

I can scrape it off with my fingernail, but I have to try pretty hard. I will try the Hibiclense and update you guys on what happens. Thanks for the input; keep it coming if you think of anything else.

[steve]

To me, that looks like a fungal infection, similar to what I believe my RES had. The cause was probably water quality/basking issue. If it doesn't get better, I'd have a herp vet check it out so the appropriate meds can be prescribed.

[SpotsMama]

It looks like fungus to me too. Just like what my RES had and it was also due to water quality/basking issues. It started with just a few white places and they grew and grew and eventually nearly his whole shell turned white. This took a couple of years. I took him to two different vets and neither knew what was wrong. I never got a good diagnosis. Since last spring when I found this forum I've corrected the water quality, light, basking and diet issues (I hope!) and he's gradually shedding the white and nice looking shell is underneath. Just recently I've started treating him from time to time with hibiclense in case the fungus is still lurking underneath. But the healing is very slow and even the good shell shows damage - it's very pitted. I wish I had known early on how to handle his habitat and to how to treat for fungus. I think his shell will show damage for years to come because the condition was allowed to go so far.

Hopefully you're catching it early enough so it will be only a minor, short term problem for your turtle.

[kikicool]

Wait a second, this is exactly what my turts have. Yesterday, I hibicleansed with a soft toothbrush. Some of the scutes by the white areas came up--not the whole scute, but parts. Like a sunburn, almost. I've decided to try to hibicleans at least once a week--they HATE it and I'm terrified of hurting them. In fact, now the bottom of their shells are a light pink. What is that about? Is that okay?

What confuses me is that this shell problem is described as being caused by a water/basking problem? I keep my tank superclean. I scoop and vaccuum in the AM and PM each day. I do 50% water change every 2 weeks, and I empty the whole thing once a month. I change the filter pads as recommeneded and I clean the filters well, too. I have pH test kit, and it's 6.5. They bask a lot. What else can I do to keep this from happening? Is there something I'm not doing in terms of water/basking? I'd love to know!

[SpotsMama]

I tried dipping Spot in a hibiclense solution - taking care that he didn't get his head in it - and he didn't like it at all. It made me nervous so I rinsed him off real well and put him back in the tank. Since then, I've given him several more "treatments" but I haven't dipped him in it - I've just gently rubbed some on his shell with a soft paper towel, let it sit while I'm holding him for a couple of minutes, then rinse thoroughly. He tolerates this very well, doesn't even seem to be aware of the hibiclense.

I don't know about pink on the bottom of the shell. Does it need to be rinsed better?

How long have you had your turtles? Possibly they had a problem before you got them. The problem my turtle had grew very slowly over a couple of years. Now, I've been working diligently on it since late last spring but he's still got quite a bit of white on his shell. Its just very slow. If your turtle has what mine had it's probably not anything you're doing but something that came into your household with them.

Question: You mentioned you test the ph. Do you also test for ammonia and nitrites? These are harmful but invisible and even if your water looks crystal clear they can build up to high levels. If your bio filter is working then they shouldn't be present. Just to be sure though you might test for them. Also, you've probably mentioned in other posts but, forgive me, I can't remember, how big are your turtles and how big is your tank and what kind of filter do you have? If the tank's too small for the turtles' size or the filter isn't big enough then the ammonia and nitrites can build up.

It's possible that what's on your turtles' shells isn't the same thing as what was on mine. Other things can turn a shell white - mineral deposits and shedding or retaining scutes, for instance. In the case above, though, my turtle's shell looked EXACTLY like the one in the picture in its early stages so I think it's the same thing.

[Starchick]

I'm very curious as well, Napoleon has the same thing on a single scute, I think I asked about it here and no one was able to give me anything conclusive. I'm sticking with the hibiclense treatments though, I can't think of anything that's out of whack environmentally...his water and basking temps are ideal, his ph, nitrates, nitrites, hardness and ammonia all test at safe levels. Especially not knowing what exactly's causing it, I'm trying to be safe and take care of it while it's contained. The only thing I can think of that other people have mentioned is that Napoleon also has not shed in many months. Kiki, maybe post a picture of the pinkness? Hibiclense does leave a pink residue when it's not rinsed enough but pink in the shell can be a sign of some diseases if it appears on its own.

Forgot to ask, someone in this thread mentioned using Brita water, is that recommended?