Habitat - Indoor :: Mating concerns

Turtle tank setups and other indoor configurations.

Post Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 10:26 pm   Mating concerns

This is a series of questions as I am new to the whole turtle breeding thing and can't find the answers I need.

First, I got 2 male RES last summer. They are both about 5 years old. I recently was given a female who is older then my boys, and needless to say, my boys are now in their glory. They have both mated with her several times since she arrived, and I plan to allow them to breed and I am going to incubate the eggs. I have been researching this and have found several different answers and am now confused. Her previous owner says she normally just dropped her eggs in the tank, but now that my boys are in there, I am concerned that she may not be comfortable doing so. Am I supposed to separate them? How can I tell if she is pregnant, and when she is due to drop her eggs? I also noticed in a previous post that there is a link for a site which explains a proper set-up for a female who is about to lay eggs, so I will read that as well.

When incubating eggs, what is a good bedding for the eggs? Also, when they hatch, how long do they stay in the incubator before putting them in to an aquarium?

I appreciate any help on this.
JJobson
 
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Post Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 11:01 pm   

http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/Nestsites.htm

If this is the website you mentioned seeing, I suggest reading there...it will answer your bedding question and many others.

Laying the eggs in the tank is not even an option. If that happens, the eggs won't even be viable. Not to mention, this is a health risk to your female. It is not normal for them to lay in the water and they may resist doing so. This can cause the eggs to become brittle and break inside her...and can ultimately lead to her death.

All of that being said, most of us on here do not support or advocate for breeding RES...me included. I would suggest that you give it some serious thought before proceeding. What happens when you have a bunch of baby RES? Can you house them all through full adulthood? Do you have the resources...money, time, space? If you are planning on selling them, is there a market for doing so? Who are you going to sell them to? What happens if you don't find buyers?
Our herp shelters are already overcrowded and many won't accept RES. The species is messing with the environment due to a large number of unwanted RES being released into the wild. There are some major issues already in the works that need solved before we bring even more into our society.

If you wish to go ahead with the breeding, it is your choice...those are just my opinions, lol.
Missi

2 RES, 1 cat, and a spoiled rotten pug.
missibsu
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Post Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 11:14 pm   

If you haven't already, consider reading the breeding section on the main site, it explains everything really well.

How do you know that they mated with the female? Even if your males flutter their claws at your female's face, it doesn't always mean that they are mating, in many cases, it means aggression (my male periodically flutters his claws at my females, but it's for fighting instead). Otherwise, the only way to know for sure is if you saw your males conduct a mating ritual and mount the female.

Are you certain you want to breed your RES? RES are overpopulated at the moment, hatchlings are sold everywhere at dirt cheap prices under inadequate conditions and often die weeks after birth unless cared for properly or people even dump their masses of unwanted RES into public areas where they most likely won't survive, or invade another native species for competition (which is bad). Caring for hatchlings will also cost a lot more money and require much more attention than adult turtles, so beware.

If you're sure that you really want to breed them and you have already planned out what to do if you do successfully breed and raise hatchlings, then read on.

Female turtles develop and lay eggs even with no male present, it's a natural thing for mature females, and they lay eggs anywhere from 1-3 times a year. Of course with no male present, these eggs are duds and you will get nothing from them. Turtles will often walk on land and search along a large area for a suitable area to lay eggs, RES have been known to be very picky, and may reject a perfectly well-made nesting area for unknown reasons (and it's common too), so prepare to make several nesting areas, or make your area very large. Turtles usually won't release their eggs until they find a suitable area, so they may retain them for an extended period of time, which can be very dangerous, even fatal. A turtle which has not laid its eggs and has kept them in can develop serious health concerns, so set aside a nesting area or take your RES to a vet if you notice anything is up.

A turtle will only release eggs in the water if it cannot find a good nesting area in time, and even so, it may be a health concern for having your turtle retain its eggs for so long. Eggs laid in the water will become infertile and duds within seconds of entering the water, so unless you see your turtle lay its eggs and immediately scoop them out of the water within seconds, then it's safe to say the eggs won't contain viable offspring.

Your male turtles may make it uncomfortable for your female to lay eggs, but as said above, the eggs won't make it anyways if they're in the water, and your female will only lay in the water if there's nothing left, so again, make a nesting area if you see anything up as soon as possible. Your male turtles may also eat the eggs in the water, and your female too, it won't care for the eggs once they're out.

If you know for certain that your female has mated with a male and has fertile eggs, then yes, it is best to separate them, at least until the eggs are out.

There are several ways to tell if your female is pregnant and ready to release her eggs, first and foremost, the simplest and best way to tell is to bring it into a vet for an x-ray. Otherwise, pick up your female, and try to ease it so its rear legs come out (which is not easy, turtles get stressed out as soon as they are touched and will withdraw to their shells or claw at your madly), then gently feel with your finger inside the shell behind your female's legs, you should feel lumps. Be careful not to go too hard though, you may hurt your turtle or burst the eggs (causing more pain to your turtle).

A good recommended bedding to incubate turtle eggs in is a moist mixture of compost/dirt and sand. 50% sand, 50% dirt, and make it moist, not dry, but not wet like mud either, just a little bit of water added is fine so that the bedding is soft, but not wet.

You should check up on your eggs every day and remove any diseased ones, they may spread disease to healthy eggs and kill off the whole litter, just do it gently, eggs can easily burst, and don't move the position of the eggs from when your female laid them, a slight change in direction can also kill the embryo within the egg, if you must move the eggs, remember the position of them and carefully move them and place them back into their original positions.

Viable eggs take roughly 2 months before they hatch babies.

When the hatchlings hatch, it's safe to put them immediately into the aquarium, since they have the natural instinct to swim, though you may want to leave them in there a few minutes before placing them into the aquarium. Just DON'T place them into the same enclosure as your adult turtles, they may see the hatchlings as food and can eat them in one bite if big enough, otherwise, they will kill the hatchlings, both the males and the female.

All of the information I just said should be on the main breeding article, if not, then this information is VERY common all over the internet, please read before posting.
Hey hey hey.
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Post Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 11:36 pm   

I have seen them do the entire mating process several times. I am aware of the claw fluttering as my males did this before my female even arrived. But I did see them fully mate for about 15 minutes each time.

Turtles are not a common pet where I am from. I live in a small town and work at the only pet store here for about 300 miles. A lot of people have requested turtles so the reason I chose to breed is for the store and for responsible friends. If she lays a lot of eggs, I will not be incubating them all, only about 7 to compensate for any sick eggs. If worse comes to worse, I will keep them for myself if I feel the people they are sold to are not responsible enough.

I appreciate your info, it helps a lot, and I will read the recommended section as well.

Thanks again.
JJobson
 
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Post Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 2:01 am   

Well at least it's good to know you aren't breeding for fun, a lot of people these days have nothing better to do but breed a bunch of hatchlings, then either play with them until they die or throw them into a river when they get bored.

Unless the next urban city is really far away, consider driving to one and picking up a bunch of abandoned turtles from local adoption agencies, there are a lot I hear without homes, people only want hatchlings, but have no love for adult turtles, :(
Hey hey hey.
Pizza
 
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Post Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:51 pm   

We don't have anywhere nearby to adopt abandoned or neglected turtles otherwise, I would definitely consider it.

However, I am comfortable breeding as I am comfortable with my intentions. And if by chance I end up keeping some of them for myself, I have spare tanks, ect, and will put out any money necessary to care for them. I am also aware that young turtles carry samonella and should not be sold under 4 inches in size, and I plan to stick to those guidelines.

I am the type of person who will do what ever research necessary to make sure I am doing the right thing without putting my pets in harms way.

I am a sincere animal lover and have more pets at home then we have at the pet store. I spend more money on food and care for my pets then I do for my husband and myself, so I know that I am responsible enough to breed my turtles and confident that it will go well.

As for breeding for fun, that would never happen. I have 9 cats, 3 dogs, 3 rats, a rabbit, 3 turtles, fish, and will soon have a vietnamese pot belly pig. The majority of my animals came from abusive homes or homes where they were neglected. So no worries there.

Thanks again.

Jamie Jobson
JJobson
 
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Post Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:37 pm   

Where are you from if you don't mind me asking. There are a lot of turtle rescues around that your potential customers could really help out.

Also, in the long run, are you planning on keeping the three adult turtles together? I think that the two males would be too much for the female in terms of pestering and aggression, not to mention the enormous size tank that you would need. May I ask how big their current tank is?

If you do decide to breed the eggs, good luck, from what I understand it's not easy, there's a fairly high mortality rate.
2 RES: Leo (f) and Ezra (m)
1 Russian Tortoise: Godzilla (m)
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megcornell
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Post Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:06 am   

I am from Red Lake Ontario, Canada. In other words, I am in the middle of the bush...in the middle of nowhere.

My female has no problems with the boys so far. At first she was pestered a bit, but this was the first female they have ever seen. She is much bigger then the boys...over double their size, and I have observed no aggression what-so-ever. They are in a 100 gallon tank and all seem to fit quite comfortably. I also have my old tank set up as back up just in case and also have 3 spare tanks aside from my old turtle tank. So I have the necessities if needed. I also have tons of lighting etc, as I used to keep lizards.

They all seem to get along great, and spend most of their time basking together.
JJobson
 
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Post Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 7:55 pm   

WOW JJobson--I'm jealous. All those pets AND you own a pet shop? Talk about employee discount :) Go you! Sounds like your intentions are wonderful and you're doing all the work you need to, in order to make sure your turts will be well-cared for. Very responsible. And I'm also still very jealous. My fiance is allergic to cats, and I adore them. He doesn't like them enough to consider getting shots.
2 Mutts, Bella and Bocephus
2 RES, Herman and Lily (Munster)
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kikicool
 
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Post Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:57 pm   

Yes, I consider myself to be very lucky as well. I love what I do, and all of my animals. I am also looking into opening an animal shelter as we don't have one here.
On the topic of cats, I love my cats. One of my females just had kittens a week ago, and they are all sooooooo cute. I hate getting rid of them. But all my males are fixed now, so I don't have to worry about having more kittens.
My brother-in-law is deathlt allergic to cats as well, but they have hairless cats which don't affect him at all, as they don't carry the dander that most people are allergic too.
Anyway, thanks for the message. I appreciate your kindness.
JJobson
 
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