Habitat - Indoor :: Laguna Bio Sludge Control

[amwassil]

Hagen's subsidary/brand Laguna markets a number of water quality products for outdoor ponds. One of these is "Bio Sludge Control" which comes in several sized containers from 8oz up to a half gallon. I bought a 16oz bottle for $23.99 at my local Petsmart. The label says it is safe for fish, plants and beneficial to all pond inhabitants. Apparently, it's a mix of micro-organisms that eat organic solids and convert them to liquid. The 16oz bottle states it is good for 2500 US gallons. Or dosed at 50ml per 265 US gallons. I'm guessing these partidular microbes live in the water column, since the label says for optimum performance turn off any UV/sterilizer for 12 hours.

Question: has anyone used this product, or something similar, in a turtle tank? If so, did it help/hinder dealing with the turtle bioload solids? Did it help/hinder keeping the mechanical filter/hoses clean? I just added 15ml to my 80 gallon tank which has about 72/73 gallons of water in it.

http://www.lagunaponds.com/lagunaeng/wa ... ?link=1112

[ljapa]

Since lots of outdoor ponds are going to have RES, I would think it would be safe for turtles.

I would say try it, but since most nitrifying bacteria attaches to surfaces, I would suggest testing nitrite and nitrate during the process. And do the same if you stop usurping it, just in case it competes with your nitrifying bacteria.

Or, you could get a recycling RES like mine. After a few times through her system, it breaks down pretty fast.

[steve]

There is a product called Nutrafin Turtle Clean that sounds similar. If I recall, there is a bit of negative sentiment towards it.

[Kansasslider]

Seachem makes a product called Stability that does the same thing. When you add it to the tank it makes the water cloudy but after a day its crystal clear. I used it for about 5 months but couldn't justify the price. They also add it to all tanks on the tv show Tanked .

http://www.seachem.com/Products/product ... ility.html

[steve]

Hmmm, didn't know there were that many companies making stuff like this.

[Kansasslider]

It used to be called "Outbreak"

[amwassil]

I had heard of Turtle Clean but have not used it. I wouldn't be surprised if it's pretty much the same stuff.

When I swapped out my Marineland C220 for the new C360 nitrite went up a bit. With the C220 I had 0 nitrite and <5.0 nitrate. By the end of the first week with the C360 nitrite was up to 0.8 and nitrate to 15. The fish did not seem to be stressed, but I sure wanted to get the nitrite back to 0; and I hoped doing that would knock down the nitrate as well. So I started adding Nutrafin Cycle and over the course of the following week added about 600ml, which was an entire bottle of the stuff. I also changed 10 gallons of water daily (in an 80 gallon tank with about 75 gallons of water in it) and at the end of the week, with nitrite still at 0.8 and nitrate going up I changed 20 gallons.

I bought a bottle Stability and started adding 25ml of that daily along with my normal 8 gallon daily water changes. Nitrite was down to 0.2 at my last test on the past Sunday and nitrate was almost back to where it was with the C220: 5.0. So all those bacteria I added from the Cycle and Stability finally seem to have the nitrite/nitrate situation back under control. I'll know for sure this coming Sunday when I do my water tests again.

I started adding the Bio Sludge Control because I can see gunk accumulating in the main filter hoses and the hoses that connect to my FX200 portable filter. My hope is that it will prevent that build up occurring and thus eliminate the necessity of pulling the hoses to clean them, which will be a PITA. Although, I'm resigned to pulling the hoses at some point to clean out what has already built up. If this stuff actually works, then it should prevent further build up after the hoses are clean again. One thing I've noticed during the past week that I've been adding Bio Sludge Control is that when the water temp hits 78F it starts smelling like a swamp. So I suspect there's something in it that generates either sulfur or methane as a byproduct. The odor is not overwhelming and neither the turtles nor the fish show any stress. Once the temp goes below 78F the odor goes away. Maybe that's why Hagen/Laguna advertise this product for outdoor ponds only. If stability does pretty much the same thing, in addition to building a colony of nitrifying/denitrifying bacteria in the main filter, then there's no point going with Bio Sludge Control (and it's odor).

[Kansasslider]

I'm sure it says for outdoor use only for a reason. Outbreak or what seachem now calls stability will not make the water smell as I'm sure you already know. I'm not sure any of these products will keep gunk from building up in your hoses but keep us up to date with the results.

[VeipaCray]

I'm going to start bottling crap and putting a label on it that says "completely safe don't worry" and start cashing in on gullible people. I'm then going to legally have to submit an MSDS sheet for the product that will contain next to no information because the product is 99.1% water so any single compound or chemical does not exceed the 1% disclosure law. Once I sell you my bottle of magic water bacteria, we'll store it in a warehouse for an undisclosed amount of time so that any living bacteria are now dead - just to make it extra safe for all tank and pond inhabitants. Once that phase is complete, we'll transport the product through some logistics company on a truck in the middle of summer where we darn near boil the water bacteria suspension just to make extra extra sure it's completely safe for all tank inhabitants. The third and final phase of making the product safe will be to have no sell-by, use-by dates on any of the packaging. This will allow any stores that distribute my product to be able to store it in a warehouse or on a shelf for an infinite amount of time just to make sure the bacteria suspension is extra extra extra not going to harm anything.

Elsewhere in nature (I can't comprehend how nature works without chemical additives) an animal that has survived for roughly 220 million years give or take will have to suffer without my wonderful product. They will have to live in ponds, streams, and rivers solely relying on nitrosomona and nitrobacter, natures inferior product to my water chemical bacteria suspension.

Folks, your turtles live in and consume the water you are pouring an unknown substance into. Yes the packaging says "completely safe" but then again the people who make this product are also in business to make money. Would you open the bio sludge control or seachem stability bottle and take a drink? Probably not. So why should your turtles have to?

And yes the guys from ATM (TV show Tanked) may use it in their tanks. They also promote nutri sea water, one of the livesand products, and a few other products. ATM is probably being endorsed by manufactures to mention the product names on the show.

Nature has been able to care for turtles for 220 million+ years without chemicals. Please stop pouring random junk into your habitats and messing with what nature has already perfected. If your tank can't fully cycle and stay cycled, your filter in adequate. If your tank isn't cycling fast enough for your schedule. Too bad. If you water isn't crystal clear... add some carbon or some purigen to your filtration media. It works wonders.
And what's the trend all of a sudden to have no gunk in the filter hoses? I've been keeping fish for almost 30 years now and have never cleaned a filter hose in my life. As long as the gunk in the hoses isn't slowing down the flow rate to the point where the filter isn't doing it's job... who cares? If you MUST have clean hoses take them off and clean them out or replace them.

Go ahead. Take a big drink from that seachem or bio sludge control bottle. Your turtle is going to. And hey... it's "completely safe" right? Yes I know it's diluted in the turtle tank... the point is it's still there and doesn't need to be.

Seriously DO NOT drink any of the products. I'm exaggerating to make a point.
From the Seachem Stability MSDS: "Health Hazards (Acute): Ingestion-May lead to nausea or diarrhea; Skin-Slight redness and skin sensitization may
develop after repeated exposure; Eyes-May cause eye irritation; Inhalation-May cause an asthmatic type response
in sensitive individuals."

http://www.seachem.com/support/MSDS/Stability.doc.pdf

[Kansasslider]

Just for the record, I only use carbon & purigen in my tank. I have no Idea if I have gunk in my hoses because they are black Actually my hoses have slime buildup but its ok.

[amwassil]

I guess another valid point is: a tank of water in my apartment is not a "pond, stream or river" where nature is maintaining colonies of helpful nitrosomona and nitrobacter amid a complex ecosystem of symbiotic organisms and animals along with my turtles. It's a totally artificial environment of very small size that is my responsibility to maintain as close to natural conditions as I can. That's why I test the water, something else nature doesn't bother with. In the natural world if a body of water goes bad, whatever is in it that can't get out dies. If my testing tells me something is not quite right, then I'm going to investigate as best I can and try whatever I can to fix it. In this instance, in addition to changing a heck of a lot of water daily for a very long time already, it happens to include some "biological helper" products that claim to add beneficial bacteria to start and help maintain the nitrogen cycle. Cycle, Stability and Bio Sludge Control are all used by tropical fish keepers some of whom report they work as advertised or don't. You may agree with those who don't, which is your privilege. However, no one reports sick and dying fish from using these products, which are primarily bacterial cultures and nutrients, not chemicals. Most tropical fish are far more sensitive to water conditions than RES, so I have no doubt whatever that they are safe to use with turtles as well.

I have three healthy turtles and 14 healthy fish. I want them all to stay that way for many years. I have a relatively new filter and it's taking a while to cycle properly. I know this is normal, yet I don't want to risk losing fish while waiting for it; so I'm willing to spend a few bucks to try some of these products to see if they are effective or not. I'm still changing a lot of water every day. I'm not looking for a panacea or miracles and we probably agree that there really aren't any.

Tomorrow I'm testing water again and I'm hopeful that nitrites will be zero or close to it.

[VeipaCray]

Kansasslider > I know. We've had this discussion before and we both agree on philosophy. It's our ethical responsibility to reproduce natural habitat as best we can within our means to support the life of the creature we've taken as a pet from nature. Why use chemicals or additives that don't exist in that natural habitat if we don't need to? - you and I and probably most of the forum agrees upon this.

The point is, none of us work for Seachem or any other aquarium chemical manufacturer (that I know of) so none of us really know exactly what's in that bottle. If we don't know...why add it?

For the last 30-ish years I've been keeping fresh and marine fish, and most recently a turtle. The one thing I've learned is no water additives are ever really required. If we can safely keep fish and turtles very healthy without chemicals and additives why NOT go that route? It's usually less expensive and probably healthier for our pets.

Amwassil> Sounds like you are using a biological helper to speed up your cycle but yet you are doing water changes which usually just prolongs the cycle. Are you able to transfer the bio media from your old filter into your new one to help seed the bacteria colony? Reusing the bio media between filters is the fastest way to cycle a tank...sometimes even foregoing the entire bacteria colonization build-up time.