Feeding and Nutrition :: The redundant turtle feeding question

[Night_Nurse]

Hey guys!
I own a music forum and I know how much members hate answering the same questions over and over. I've searched, I really have, but I can't find the exact answers to my questions. So here goes...

My turt is approx. 2 inches and was found in the wild (I'm guessing she's 3 - 4 months old).
She seems fine, except I think I see a tiny bit of pyramiding in two spots on the top. I know this is bad, but I can't find out why it's bad (I read here it could kill, but why?). So I know too much feeding & protein can cause that.
At this point, I'm feeding her everyday, the amount the size of her head.
I typically feed the Zoo Med hatchling formula pellets and give the HBH Turtle Bites Veggie Pellets a few times a week, and those tiny dried shrimp a few times a week (maybe 2 or 3 tiny dried ones). I also offer cuttlebone (small bits w/ backing removed) but she hardly ever eats them and will go out of her way to avoid them.
Am I doing okay or harming her? Too much protein? Too little calcium?

Fruits and veggies:
I may be overdoing it because I read here fruit should be a special treat maybe only once a twice a month. Yes or no? I've been giving her fruit maybe 2 times a week.
I also have given her raspberries and blueberries, which she LOVES! I didn't see those listed as okay on the approved list. So, are they okay? She also loves banana and melon which I see is okay.
Why is more than 1-2 times a month a bad idea?

For veggies, again, maybe they are given 1 -2 times a week, in tiny amounts. She really likes broccoli and yellow squash, which I didn't see on the approved list. Are these okay? I have offered dandelion leaves and carrots in the past but she doesn't seem to like them.
When should I switch to all veggies one day, protein the next? Is that when she's closer to 1 year (and I know after a year I should feed every other day, right?).

So please let me know what I'm doing that is good and what is bad. She is growing, and looks healthy to me.
I'm open to all suggestions and I appreciate any feedback.
Thanks!

[Chrisbarnett]

Okay, here goes.

Pyramiding is bad because it causes the shell to grow too fast in certain areas and be misshapen which causes pressure on certain internal ares. At least that's my understanding of it.

A bit too much protein with the dried shrimp. Feed those once every 2 weeks max. I would give them once a month if it was me. But since you are giving such small amounts, I'd say once every 2 weeks is alright.

Fruit is excess is a bad idea because it is high in sugar. Cut that back to about once a week max. Rasberries and blueberries are fine.

You can give good veggies like red&green leaf lettuce every day in addition to pellets. I give Green leaf lettuce every day. Broccoli is bad because it has a high phosphorous to calcium ratio, which inhibits calcium absorbtion. I'm not sure about yellow Squash though..

When your turtle reaches 4" in shell length you can switch over to pellets one day and all veggies the next.

[TheComputerGremlin]

Pyramiding is bad for a few reasons. One is that depending on how the shell forms, it can become difficult for the turtle to swim, bask, and eat. Also, as mentioned, it can put too much pressure on the internal organs. Equate pyramiding of the shell to obesity. Except that with turtles, it's VERY hard to get them to lose weight and often, the pyramiding will remain forever.

Ditto on the dried shrimp, a lot of people who find they are seeing pyramiding have been feeding the dried shrimp or krill turtle treats. I don't even both feeding those.

Fruit is fed occasionally because it's high in sugar. But think of it this way, you could feed your turtle a largish piece of melon once every two weeks, or small like 1 cm sized pieces every few days. It's all about quantity versus frequency. Just like blueberries. You can give them 1-2 blueberries every couple days or 5-6 once a week. And when we say fruit is occasional, that means all fruit. So if you gave her a sliver of banana, no other fruits should be offered for a few days at least. No giving her banana and melon and blue berries and raspberries every couple days.

Veggies, if they are high in sugar (like squash, tomatoes, carrots), they can be given once per week. Lettuce, however, can be offered daily. When you get over 4" in shell length, you would switch to pellets every other day, but veggies can be offered EVERY day.

[steve]

In addition to pyramiding, which is often a permanent disfigurement, fast growth also causes internal organs to grow quickly which can impact them later on. I think kidney failure is usually cited. I'm not sure how pressure is exerted internally. Last year we saw pictures of a wild RES who had a soda can ring stuck around her for years. She was named Peanut and was in the shape of one (though this is not pyramiding). I think there were some compressed/failed organs, but we are talking about a severe case.

For veggies, you can try using a veggie clip. It will keep it one place instead of floating around. You can also try some aquatic plants in there. If they don't eat them, they can survive as decoration.

[Night_Nurse]

Thanks everyone!

Upon further research, I see it might not be pyramiding at all. I have noticed small, raised lines in the central shield area of the carapace. I'm thinking that's a bit normal from what I've seen online. Maybe one day I can post a photo so you guys can verify if it's normal.
Regardless, I'll cut down on the shrimp given and not overfeed to prevent any problems.

Concerning the fruit, when I do give, I only give a tiny amount (think tic-tac candy sized).
I'll try to be more diverse with the veggies. She did eat a bit of dandelion leaf today, which made me happy.
I still have much difficulty in getting her to eat cuttlebone, no matter how I offer it.
I'll keep trying.

Thanks for the advice!

[Chrisbarnett]

Are you just leaving the cuttlebone in the tank at all times? or only offering it at certain times?

Try just leaving it in the tank until it gets eaten. Your turt will take to it eventually.

[Bladedvixen]

Upon further research, I see it might not be pyramiding at all. I have noticed small, raised lines in the central shield area of the carapace. I'm thinking that's a bit normal from what I've seen online. Maybe one day I can post a photo so you guys can verify if it's normal.

I believe you are talking about a little ridge in the scutes right in the middle going from head to tail. It is very common to see this in hatchlings like your baby. any other lines you see may be areas of shell growth between the scutes (something that sort of looks like rings on a tree)

[Night_Nurse]

Are you just leaving the cuttlebone in the tank at all times? or only offering it at certain times?

Try just leaving it in the tank until it gets eaten. Your turt will take to it eventually.

I've been offering small amounts with feedings. Sometimes she will go to eat it and then spit it out. Other times it sinks to the bottom and I've also placed small pieces on her basking rock. She doesn't want it wet or dry. I've only seen her swallow a few pieces maybe 3 or 4 times, and that's always been because it was floating right next to her pellet.

If it's still there after a few days, do I still leave it in there or remove it?

[Night_Nurse]

I believe you are talking about a little ridge in the scutes right in the middle going from head to tail. It is very common to see this in hatchlings like your baby. any other lines you see may be areas of shell growth between the scutes (something that sort of looks like rings on a tree)

Yes, that's what is looks like. I was thinking a few days ago that it might be pyramiding but now I think it's just normal. This is my first turtle so basically, I know nothing at all! LOL

Thank you for your reply.

[Bladedvixen]

you can leave the cuttlebone in the tank. after a few days it will sink. I think my turtle prefers the cuttlebone once it has sunken... I guess because he can grab at it a little easier ( gravity or something)

you do not need to take it out of the tank unless it looks like it is seriously deteriorating or nasty with algae. even then, take it out and wash it with hot water and let it dry for 2 or three days. once it has dried out you can throw it back in the tank and the cycle will repeat

[Chrisbarnett]

Squirt seems to prefer it once it has sank as well.

[packfan1]

I would leave the cuttlebone in their and she should take to it eventually, but if done while feeding other items she likes more, she will ignore the cuttlebone. I just leave mine in for my turts to snack on.

[ilcapo21]

My turts wouldnt eat cuttlebone right away, i think they started when they were about 2 or 3 inches. Eventually they'll take to it, mine went from not eating it at all to snatching it as soon as it hits the water, they do enjoy it.