Feeding and Nutrition :: Tired of buying feeders?

Turtle diets and eating habits discussed here.

Post Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 5:51 pm   Tired of buying feeders?

Once upon a time a while back I noticed a couple tiny little fry(baby fish) swimming around my plants in my turtle tank. I researched them and realized they were swordtail babies left by a batch of feeder fish my turtle had since eaten. This gave me an idea, why was I paying for feeders when I could raise my own. Now I have about 200 fry under 1/2" about 60 over 1/2" and 7 pregnant soon to be mothers. In fact I have so many now I sell them to my local LFS to sell as feeders.

I looked through this forum and couldn't find a DIY to do this so I decided to make my own. If one exists please delete mine moderators as I don't want to waste space:)

Breeding and brooding livebearers is a lot less difficult than caring for a turtle so I know you will all find it quite easy. After following this you will never have to buy a feeder again and if you can work out a deal with an LFS like I did you won't have to pay for turtle accessories out of pocket again!

As it is not complicated at all I will make it as short and sweet as possible;
Things you will need:
1 10 to 20gal tank, can be any size above a 10gal, tall tanks and hex's actually work great.
2 A bundle or two of hornwort or cabomba, you can choose your own plant types, these are just what works in my experience. Java moss supposedly works well too and they sell fake plants just for this purpose called breeding grass or brooding grass.
3 1 male and 2 females of whatever livebearer species you would like, I like swordtails as there young are hardier, they are extremely fast and nimble so your turtle must exercise to catch them and they just look cool.
4 a filter appropriately sized for the tank with a strainer cloth or bag over the intake. This is to prevent the main cause of fry loss which is getting sucked up by the filter.
5 Perhaps a heater if ambient temps are not right and a grow light if you wish to keep the tank permanently running.

Directions

1 fill tank with well water or tap water that's been treated. Add filter and heater. You must cycle the tank first just like your turtle tanks which means to grow beneficial bacteria to eat fish waste(ammonia)and prevent it from becoming toxic. This could take a week or two but you can speed it up by adding filter media from an already established tank. You will need to test the water regularly and do partial water changes until totally cycled. If you need info on cycling there are a million Ebooks just google aquarium cycling. Try to keep tank between 72 and 78f

2 Once your tank is cycled it is safe to add your male and two females of your chosen species. You may also add your chosen plant. I like to use hornwort and wrap one end around a rock and let the other end float to the top with it covering 75% of the surface. This my take 2 bundles depending on your tank size. Java moss also works good and cabomba. They also make plastic plants just for this purpose usually labeled breeding or brooding grass. I don't like to use it as I had some work it's way through my straining cloth and burn a filter up. But to each his own.

3 Mating rituals vary among livebearers but they all basically become very active with the males harassing the females. It is good to put one male in with two females to avoid stressing the females with 24/7 harassment. Swordtail males will swim backwards very skillfully to show off to females, guppies usually rely on harassment and colorful fins to attract females or make them give in. Either way you will know your females are fertilized when you notice a dark Gravid spot behind behind the fishes belly right above the anal fin. You will have no problem finding it when it's their. Once both females have this spot and it seems to have grown, remove the male. You may feed him to your turtle now if you like, you won't need him again. You might be afraid to dispose of him thinking the fry may be stilborn or early and not survive which is a risk but livebearers save up sperm from an "encounter" with a male and store enough for 6 batches of fry. So losing the male is not a worry and he will harass your females pregnant or not which adds a lot of stress on them.

4 It usually takes 28 to 35 days depending on the species and what part of the world your in from conception to birth. During this time you can feed the mothers cheap tropical flakes(NOT GOLDFISH FLAKES) and also supplement them with whatever staple their care sheet recommends; for instance Swordtails have a 70% staple diet of algae, so I drop a couple algae wafers in for the mothers. This will help to have the absolute best fry you can have with more number's, bigger, and healthier fry.

5 The mothers will find a spot to hide either in the plants or by the heater and give birth to live swimming babies(hence livebearer). These babies will instinctually go for the top to find plants to hide in as the mothers will eat them. To feed the fry just take those same cheap tropical flakes and crush them into a powder, take small pinches and insert into the plants on top of the water in several spots. The fry will stay in the plants mostly for safety so this is where you want to feed them. Some people like to use breeder boxes or remove the mothers after birth but I find this just adds stress to the mothers and if you do your plants right only the retarded of the fry will get eaten which is natural selection and makes for good batches of fry down the road. This is also why I don't add males back after I remove a fry, females store enough seed for 6 batches so there is no need and the male will instantly go to harassing the females again which adds stress on top of just giving birth which usually results in death.

6 Keep feeding powdered flakes and occasionally a powdered staple i.e for swordtails I crush up an algae wafer. Once your fish get about 1/2" long or to big to fit in the mothers mouth you can either leave them in the breeding tank or move to a second one you set up or throw them in with your turtles. I have a seperate tank with just a filter that I house my feeders for the LFS but any I plan on feeding to my turtle I just throw in with the turtles. I put about 30 a time in my 110gal turtle tank and they survive just fine. I am sure you have all dropped a lone minnow in with your turtle just to watch him chase it until he gets it. Well try putting 20 in at once. It's like Zebras and lions, the turtle will chase one until it's distracted by another then chase that one until... and son on and so forth until he gets too tired and gives up. This is the absolute best way in my opinion to have surviving fish in a turtle tank. When your ready to feed him one just catch one and stun it or weaken it and throw it back in. The turtles instincts will take over when he sees an injured one and he'll attack.

Well that's about it, you can repeat the process while your fry are being raised in the plants by adding one or two more pregnant females or just leaving the mothers in their and they will start up again. You can have two batches of fry from the same mother residing in the same plants.

Remember this too, You only have to pay for the parents once so don't go buy dime a fish feeders to breed. Buy a set(2 females 1 male) of fancy guppies or Green Swordtails or Dalmatian Mollies. Get the fancy, pretty ones, they don't eat any extra and you only pay for them once, whatever you choose it will be little versions of them you are growing so for aesthetic purposes I raise fancy guppies and Assted Swordtails.

Tell me if this was helpful or not, hope you all enjoyed and I didn't miss anything.
6'x18''x20''100g 1 4in RES male 1 2in YBS Female
3 baby Peninsula Cooters
2 Senegal Bichirs
2 pictus cats
1 juvie bluegill
30 swordtails and guppies
10 ghost shrimp
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jay2487
 
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Post Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:52 pm   

There's actually a very similar sticky about how to breed feeder guppies.

Here's the link: http://www.redearslider.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5310
Check out my blog at: http://turtleaffairs.wordpress.com/
Tank #1:
~Charlie - 4 inch male RES
Tank #2:
~Charlotte - 6 inch female RES
worldpeace
 
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Location: Canada
Gender: Female

Post Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 10:49 pm   

Thank you, Jay. I'm way too sensitive to do this though. I'd probably keep all of them as pets. Aquariums in every room! But I also cringe when my husband brings home crickets, so moi is not the intended audience :)
1 RES - Splat, born 10/06, now queen of the laundry room
SliderGirl
 
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Post Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:23 am   

I enjoyed reading your instructions.
Thank you so much! I plan to raise feeders, so this was very pertinent.
Good Job!
Happy New Year!
Take care,
V Lou

I have:
2 kitties
lots of plants
1 female RES, Itai, 1 female Western Painted, Daisey. They have lots of colorful pet fish and about 770 gal water.
V Lou
 
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Location: Fort Collins, CO, USA

Post Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:34 am   

Hey, I did this with guppies thinking it was a genius idea, but now Tomi won't eat the fish... haha. So I ended up with a guppy tank! I separated the males and females so they won't keep having baby guppies! :) It's ok though - I now have a guppy tank and all kinds of fish in the turtle tank.
1 RES - Tomi (75 gal)
1 Leopard Gecko - Leia (20 gal)
2 Fancy goldfish, 1 bn pleco (40 gal breeder)
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vear
 
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Post Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:04 am   

Vear you should talk to your LFS, if they sell a lot of feeders you can probably work out a deal. My LFS sells 15 feeders for $1 and gives me $4 for 100. This is always rough estimates but usually I fill both tanks and might get some out of my turtle tank so I'll take 200 to 300 to the LFS. Then I come home with a new cichlid or some turtle pellets OR I'll pick 20 or 30 of my best fancy guppies and most decorative swordtails when the LFS requests them and get .75 cents to $1.25 a piece depending on size. That's how I buy all my basking lights(which are getting ridiculous)and platforms and decor. Other than the tank and filters and substrate raising feeders about pays for my hobby;)

Oh and if you want those turtles to start eating those fish again take them all out for a week or two then drop one in at a time. That always works to make mine pick back up.
6'x18''x20''100g 1 4in RES male 1 2in YBS Female
3 baby Peninsula Cooters
2 Senegal Bichirs
2 pictus cats
1 juvie bluegill
30 swordtails and guppies
10 ghost shrimp
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jay2487
 
Posts: 383
Joined: Dec 10, 2009
Location: Plant City Fl

Post Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:07 am   

Maybe I'll check with the petstore, it's not a bad idea. I don't really want the turtle to eat the fish now. I have a pretty nice tank this way. I mean, if he wants to eat them it's fine, but I like that he's not eating them at the moment :)
1 RES - Tomi (75 gal)
1 Leopard Gecko - Leia (20 gal)
2 Fancy goldfish, 1 bn pleco (40 gal breeder)
https://www.facebook.com/varboleda6
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vear
 
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Post Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:26 am   

Yeah that's the way I feel, I have a feeder come up missing at a rate of 1 or 2 a week. I like having my turtle tank with a bunch of different fish in it. When I was dropping in one or two at a time they would be eaten in seconds but now with 30 feeders in there they eat one every few days. Between 5 turtles that's pretty good. As I understand it you don't want turtles to eat fish as a main staple of there diet as it's not healthy for them and is supposed to lower their life span. People looking to keep fish with their turtles should try the 20 feeder method. Here's 2 people right here that have seen it work lol
6'x18''x20''100g 1 4in RES male 1 2in YBS Female
3 baby Peninsula Cooters
2 Senegal Bichirs
2 pictus cats
1 juvie bluegill
30 swordtails and guppies
10 ghost shrimp
User avatar
jay2487
 
Posts: 383
Joined: Dec 10, 2009
Location: Plant City Fl

Post Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:41 am   

Nice idea. I think I will give this a try when it gets a bit warmer like in the summer time as my parents don't like heaters since they think it is dangerous and they use a lot of electricety. Is it okay if I breed the Platies in my turtle tank? Or can i just put them in a cheap container or something as I don't want too many fish tanks in my house and since they are meant to be eaten by my turtles, then I don't want to spend too much on them? Can you take a couple pictures of your process so I can see how you do it? I am more of a picture learner than just hearing the words. :)

Thanks

PS I already had an account when you asked me if I had an account on this forum so that I can learn more about my turtles and better care for them.
AznYanTheMan
 
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Post Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:04 am   

Yes you can breed platys just as easy but you won't get as many to survive in your turtle tank. You'll have to cover all the filter intakes to prevent them from getting sucked up and you will have to add a lot of plants to keep the parents and turtles from getting to the young. This won't really stop the turtles though and they will destroy your plants once they realize food is in them.

Absolutely I will take some pics when I get a chance and maybe we can get a moderator to add them to the main post(mods???)
6'x18''x20''100g 1 4in RES male 1 2in YBS Female
3 baby Peninsula Cooters
2 Senegal Bichirs
2 pictus cats
1 juvie bluegill
30 swordtails and guppies
10 ghost shrimp
User avatar
jay2487
 
Posts: 383
Joined: Dec 10, 2009
Location: Plant City Fl

Post Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:40 am   

so i have guppies in with my turtle and i knwo some are pregnant and i have a 2.5 gallon plant tank with 4 ghost shrimp in it, could i put the female guppy in there or will it be too small and stressful for the guppy?
65 Gallon
-1 RES (Myrtle)
-1 Pleco (unnamed)
-1 four lined pimelodus catfish (unnamed)
-1 shubunkin (unnamed)
29 Gallon Planted Tank
-3 cory cats
-# guppies!
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rsour24
 
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Post Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:15 pm   

A lot of fish keepers would say no but for just long enough for them to have fry, I see no problem. I would wait until the guppy looks almost square though before putting it in. You will have to remove the ghost shrimp though, they will eat the fry. Although it is cool to watch them do it and they will never eat every last one. If you want to keep as much as possible remove the ghost shrimp and the mother when it comes time to deliver.
6'x18''x20''100g 1 4in RES male 1 2in YBS Female
3 baby Peninsula Cooters
2 Senegal Bichirs
2 pictus cats
1 juvie bluegill
30 swordtails and guppies
10 ghost shrimp
User avatar
jay2487
 
Posts: 383
Joined: Dec 10, 2009
Location: Plant City Fl

Post Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:54 pm   

well i only have 2 ghost shrimp in the 2.5 now and the rest r in with my turtle, whats left of them anyway. my turtle is kind clever about it tho. (s)he waits until they r bigger and full grown b4 going after them and ignores the small ones, but obviously sees the small ones
65 Gallon
-1 RES (Myrtle)
-1 Pleco (unnamed)
-1 four lined pimelodus catfish (unnamed)
-1 shubunkin (unnamed)
29 Gallon Planted Tank
-3 cory cats
-# guppies!
User avatar
rsour24
 
Posts: 1678
Joined: Sep 7, 2009
Location: PA
Gender: Male

Post Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:06 pm   

There not going to eat every single one of them, just the ones who happen to swim by at the wrong time but they can eat them. The mother will eat them too but the difference is the mother will not bury herself in the plants to get them where the ghost shrimp will. You will still have plenty survive but be forewarned, don't freak out when you see a ghost shrimp chewing on one of your babies.
6'x18''x20''100g 1 4in RES male 1 2in YBS Female
3 baby Peninsula Cooters
2 Senegal Bichirs
2 pictus cats
1 juvie bluegill
30 swordtails and guppies
10 ghost shrimp
User avatar
jay2487
 
Posts: 383
Joined: Dec 10, 2009
Location: Plant City Fl

Post Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:46 am   

i think all my ghost shrimp will gone by that point, they r a tasty treat for myrtle, what do u think is the best to breed in a 2.5 gallon? it has to be 2.5 bc its fits perfect on my ATBA so it can get the lights and it has a lot of pants
65 Gallon
-1 RES (Myrtle)
-1 Pleco (unnamed)
-1 four lined pimelodus catfish (unnamed)
-1 shubunkin (unnamed)
29 Gallon Planted Tank
-3 cory cats
-# guppies!
User avatar
rsour24
 
Posts: 1678
Joined: Sep 7, 2009
Location: PA
Gender: Male

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