Feeding and Nutrition :: "Jagged" edges of shell vs. pyramiding (long)

[kidzncatz]

I opted to post this here because this problem is related to nutrition (as opposed to "general care" or "urgent care"- my apologies if it is not the correct place. I'm thinking now it might garner more responses in general care but read that posting in multiple places is a "no no" so I will leave it here and hope for the best

I have had my female RES, Tubby, for about 2 1/2 years. Her diet (up until quite recently when I have spent more time perusing this site) has consisted of the following:

Zoo Med Aquatic Turtle Pellets (once daily- for the past couple of months I have cut back the amount of pellets, or have at least been more aware the amount, feeding only what I think would fit in her head.)

Frozen Aquatic Turtle Diet (little green "cubes") 2-3 times a week, 2-5 cubes at a time, in addition to pellets (but will cut back on amt. of pellets when feeding the cubes)

Krill: 2-3 times weekly

I have just recently been really getting into the site and reading it in it's entirety. I am starting to offer veggies (with not much interest) but I see that i need to keep at it and will of course keep trying now that I know.

I have a couple of questions. First of all, is she considered an "adult" now, and if so, should I cut back feeding the pellets to every OTHER day (and offer veggies daily)?

Now, more importanly (and the cause of my panic) is that I have been doing a lot of reading on the pyramiding (in my ignorance, I thought that might mean when multiple turtles stack on top of one another, kind of like cheerleaders but now of course I am seeing it means something very different. I have looked at all of the pictures I can find about it and the top of Tub's shell doesn't look like it's pyramiding. However, the edges of her shell are quite jagged, and have been like that for as long as i can remember. I see that most of the turtles suffering from pyramiding seem to have the jagged shell too so is that part of pyramiding? I saw one reference to the jagged shell and something was mentioned about protein so clearly I have not been feeding her a proper diet (which KILLS me as I really thought I had been doing the best for her with regards to everything.)

Here are a couple of pictures of her and I would appreciate any feedback you may have. I've read that the pyramiding can be reversed (or helped) with a change in diet. I am willing to do anything I can of course, so do you have any suggestions? I don't think the diet has been too far off, with maybe the exception of maybe too much of the krill and not enough of the veggies? If I were to improve her diet is there a chance I can help fix this? And more importantly, will she suffer any permanant damage or issues from this? Let me know what you think and I look very much forward to your responses.

Thanks in advance for your help.
Amy (& Tubby)









P.S. After adding the pictures and really checking them out, the top of her shell DOES look to be exhibiting signs of pyramiding but perhaps not severe? The back of her shell is extremely jagged in the 3rd picture (more so than I realized) and I'm freaking out a bit. So any input (calming words??) would be greatly appreciated.

Also, I should mention, if you all respond and I suddenly become MIA, it's safe to assume I've gone into labor (I am just a couple of days away from my due date but as of yet, no action, but you never know Thanks again!

[Spookster]

That is not pyramiding. The term pyramiding doesn't mean that their entire shell forms into the shape of a pyramid. It means that each individual scute raises up in the center of the scute in pyramid shape. So in essence all of their scutes form into lots of individual pyramids.

[Spookster]

Here are some photos of what it looks like in tortoises. This should give you an idea

http://www.turtlestuff.com/pyramid.html

[steve]

I haven't seen too many instances of pyramiding in RES, however you have been overfeeding your turtle. There seem to be some retained scutes as well. You need to cut down the protein (no krill or treats) and offer more variety in her diet.

[kidzncatz]

Spookster and Steve, thank you for your responses. The individual scutes looked to me as though they were starting to "raise up" in the middle, but perhaps I was just looking too hard. I saw a couple of alarming pics of what was said to pyramiding (in RES) here on the site and was afraid she may be starting to pyramid. I am relieved she is not.

I assume, Steve, that the overfeeding is evident because of the jagged edges of the shell? I will cut out the treats (no more krill) and continue to offer her veggies each day. Do you think I should cut her pellets back to every other day or continue feeding her daily? And is she likely to suffer any long term effects from my overfeeding (and her shell being mishapen?)

Thanks again for your response. I appreciate the help.

[jenaero]

I had a similar problem with my res. The person I lived with was feeding them and not telling me. He would even give them things on a regular basis that I considered a rare treat (bananas, shrimp). After the first few months I noticed they were showing signs of pyramiding. I cut back on the pellets and ditched the shrimp completely. After they were 6 or 8 months old, I cut them back to every-other-day feedings with veggies on the between days. When they hit a year and were still growing quite quickly, I got them down to 3 days a week. They're now just over 2 years old and are evening out nicely. Here's their meal plan. It might help you.

Sunday- red leaf lettuce or dandelion leaves or anacharis

Monday - 1 large earthworm each, hand fed

Tuesday - same as sunday

Wednesday - pellets (estimated amount the size of their head)

Thursday - same as sunday

Friday - pellets or 3 freeze dried crickets each

Saturday - same as sunday

Once every month or so they'll get a treat of grated carrots, raspberries or banana. I throw a dozen rosy red minnows or 2 dozen guppies in every 1.5 to 2 months

Both my res' shells are quite jagged..sharp actually. I truthfully don't know if it's related to being overfed but I have seen res with no signs of pyramiding that have jagged edges so I'm thinking it's completely natural.

I also lowered the water temperature to 72-75 and they're now growing at the rate of about an inch a year, which I've read is ideal.

[kidzncatz]

Jenaero, thank you for taking the time to reply in such detail. I'm going to start Tubs on your menu (or something similar) today. I'm sure she will be none too pleased but that's what Mom's are for (not necessarily making the popular choices but doing what's best instead )

Thanks again!

[jenaero]

At first it was difficult not to give in to their constant begging, but they've got their own room now (they were in the living room) so I don't have to watch them flip out

[marisa]

The flared scutes looks like they didn't shed when they were supposed to (scute build up).

[industrial_girl_2000]

Definitely a bit of overfeeding in those pics. The ruffled look of the scutes are kinda like the turtle equivalent of human stretch marks. Turts will try to eat too much and there is no choice but the shell to stretch like that since there is no place for the fat to go! The marks are not harmful, but I agree with what others said here in regards to cutting back on the amount of food you give him/her.