General Care Discussion :: New Aggressive Behavior - HELP!

[wcrimi]

I have 2 female RES in a 70 gallon tank. Both are about 5"-6" and are about 4 years old. They have been together since they were babies. I realize that's a little tight, but there is simply no more room in my apartment for a bigger tank right now.

They have always gotten along together extremely well. However, the other night after the lights went out I saw one (the more dominant one) nipping at the other's tail and back feet. That sent the other into a swimming and splashing frenzy because it must have been painful. No harm was done though.

I thought the issue might have been that they were still hungry even though they get plenty of lettuce daily, Reptomin every other day, earthworms and assorted other veggies/fruits as treats occasionally. However, the problem has persisted for three nights in a row despite upping their food intake.

The strange thing is that they seem to get along all day. They even bask together without issue.

But when the lights go out one gets aggressive.

I have noticed that the aggression usually takes place when they are aware that I am in the room and walking around because the TV light is still on. It's as if when I am motion , they are expecting to be fed because they know that when I go into the kitchen, I often come out with food for them. That expectation may be what's triggering it, but I don't understand why it just started after 4 uneventful years and why it doesn't occur during the day.

I'm really upset about this because I don't have the room to upgrade or separate them now, but I can't imagine giving one up.

I need a turtle whisperer ASAP!

[Penelope75]

They really need to be separated or it could end badly. I'm no expert but I have read that once the aggression starts it doesn't stop. There is also concern over the tank size as females can get quite large and really do need a lot more space than 70 gallons can provide. It's supposed to be 10 gallons per inch of turtle for each turtle so for the size they are now each one should at the very least have their own 60 gallon tank and even that wouldn't last them very long. I have my male in his own 75 gallon tank and while I hope it will be his forever home I do realize that I may have to upgrade it at some point! I hope this helps at least a little!!

[rsour24]

if they had enough space im sure they wouldnt be aggresive bc they havent been until now. but u need to separate them for now. its not gonna stop in the tank they r in now

[wcrimi]

I'm making some temporary contingency plans to prevent either turtle from getting hurt if this continues, but last night they were fine.

Longer term, I may have to get a bigger place for myself so I have more room for the turtles. I hope one of them kicks in some rent.

[marisa]

You could temporarily divide the tank until you get a second set-up.

[wcrimi]

The aggression stopped for about a week but started again last night.

I was hoping it would stop until I'm ready to relocate. I have no set time for that, but I'll have more room then.

Unfortunately, I have absolutely no room for another setup now. I have a small tank I can put one in until I make the difficult decision of which one I am going to have to find a new home for. This makes me very sad because I love both and take such perfect care of them, it's going to be hard to trust anyone else to do the same. I'm hoping I can find someone local that will allow me to see it once in awhile.

[wcrimi]

If I get a tank divider, how can I cope with basking and other issues?

[theartbook35]

They are basically fighting over space. You will have to either get to smaller separate tanks, or one big tank.

My turtles had this issue when their tank got to small. When I updated to something much, much bigger, the aggression stopped immediately. My turtles have done on and off fluttering or space battles in the past when they had the smaller tank. Usually this was after cleanings if things were rearranged. Since we got the big tank, I've seen them flutter for ownership of certain decorations, but not over space, and there has been no biting. Sounds like your turtles are having the classic "I love you tank mate, but I don't want you near me!" battle.

You can also buy a tank divider, which will give each turtle their own space with their own basking area each. Tank dividers are available at major pet stores and most local stores. Just buy the cheapest basking docks you can find, that your turtles can fit on. You will need to get a second set of lights.

The other option, for at least the time being, would be to get one of those tunnels, or a couple of plants, so they don't have to see each other all the time.

[wcrimi]

It doesn't seem like it's a space issue to me, but I guess you are right.

To be honest, it seems like one is always hungry looking for food. She picks up her activity when the lights go off. Then whenever they are in the same area, she snaps. I tried upping the food intake again tonight and she settled down. I'm going to keep doing that for the time being until I get a divider or something. I'm really upset by this because I didn't see it coming. I thought I had some time to move and get a bigger tank eventually.

When I go to pet stores etc... I see loads of turtles living in massively tighter conditions without fighting over space. Not that those conditions are good, but agressivenes does not seem to be an issue.

[steve]

Aggression can easily be a personality issue with RES. You should always prepare for the possibility that every RES you keep might need it's own enclosure. As having to keep my RES apart, I know it's not an easy thing to do.

[cervoned1]

I have 4 RES, two about 9 months old and 2 new hatchlings, all males I think. My older ones have been together since they were hatchlings and they are about 3-1/2 inches now. One of them started the fluttering when they were very small. At the time he was the smaller of the two and he would keep bugging his tank mate. They were my first turtles and I was used to having cats and dogs and trying to teach them to behave. So, I started the same way with the turtles. I have a wire mesh top on their tank that I made from vinyl coated wire hardware cloth. I started using a long clear stick (actually part of a cat toy) to separate them when it started. I would swish the water in front of the bad boy and say "no." As silly as it may sound to seasoned turtle owners, Mikey is learning that he is not to harass Leo. If he starts, I just need to walk up to the storage tub they are in and as soon as he sees me, he scurries away from Leo. I realize that they may all need separate tanks in the future, but I am hoping that I can train them to behave. I love to see them basking together. So far there has been no actual aggression though, only the harassing fluttering.

[aal]

You may have a case of having two males. RES males can get very territorial, trying to establish who's the boss. Getting a larger tank or seperation is definitely neccesary. Don't even think of releasint them into the wild. People who can't cope with their growth shouldn't even consider buying them. Sadly this is how 90% of RES trade ends up in Asia. I don't know about America but I'm guessing similar results. Nipping of the tale, feet and neck will be common and will result with hideous problems.

[wcrimi]

Here is an update.

At this point I am almost 100% sure it's not a territory or space thing. They are together all morning and afternoon every day without problem. They bask together, feed together, swim together etc.. with zero problems. The problems start as soon as the lights go out and they see activity outside the tank.

When they see activity, they normally go into feeding mode because they know that when I go into the kitchen I often come out with food for them.

However, with the lights out, I think one of them cannot tell that the other is a turtle and she is trying to feed. I know it sounds crazy, but I see the same pattern over and over. She goes into feeding mode and then goes after the other turtle (who panics and swims away).

To cope with the problem on a temporary basis, I have been separating the turtles as soon as the lights goes out. Tonight is the 5th night. I'm putting the aggressive one into a small hospital tank each evening and then putting her back in the main tank in the morning. I'm trying to find a tank divider for a 70 gallon tank, but they only seem to make them for up to 55 gallons. My intention is to divide the tank in the evenings. If anyone knows how I can get a 70 gallon one, please let me know.

This evening I saw the same problem.

They were swimming and basking together fine all day. The light went out so I took the net to wash it out before getting her. She saw me and withing 30 seconds she went after the other turtle. It's simply crazy that they have ZERO problem when there is light and within 30 seconds after the light is out she changes. I'm so distressed by this because she's obviously very unhappy in the small hospital tank and I have ZERO room for anything bigger.

This is so crazy after 4 years of perfect behavior.

[cervoned1]

Have you tried just leaving a light on their tank? Although I have never used them, I have seen nocturnal reptile light bulbs, but I don't know if they would provide enough light to solve the problem. I know that it is recommended that they have a day and night cycle, but I am often up late at night and mine seem to like the lights on. Maybe your one girl just gets freaky because she's afraid of the dark. I know that sounds silly but I swear my turtles have personalities of their own far beyond what I would ever had expected from a turtle! Maybe just a small basking light over a basking platform might solve your problem.

[zdub20]

I feel your pain. My 2 male RES started acting aggressively a year ago and have not stopped since. So I split them into 10 gal tanks until I could afford a larger one. I deluded myself into thinking that all would be well when I got my 60 gal tank. Of course when I placed them both of then inside the new tank, they would first face each other slowly, then one or the other would attempt to mate. When they begin to realize none of that funny business is going to happen, thats when the fluttering begins!

Just like before when in the 10gal tank, no matter how much I moved them away from each other, they would come together like a magnet and flutter. In my experience they can do this non-stop until they start snapping at each other, which can be deadly. So, whatever the reasons may be, they will have to remain separated.

Unfortunately, I have to swap them out daily as well. It's saddens me deeply and pisses me off at the same time, but eventually I'll have to get another tank. Honestly, its not gonna be another 60gal, but I'm gonna have to get em something. I've searched for dividers larger than 55gal, and I couldn't find one either. I've read that even those dividers are flimsy and useless and better for fish, not RES. The only other option would be to custom build your tank? Yea, I wish I had that kind of time and money too.

I hope it all works out for you...