General Care Discussion :: Cloudy water problems

Taking care of your turtle's overall health.

Post Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:39 am   Re: Cloudy water problems

First off I have to give you the disclaimer that your filters are undersized. Filter ratings are based on the bioload of a community fish tank. A single turtle produces MUCH more bioload than a community of fish. The rule of thumb is to take the filter's advertised capability and divide by 3. So for you a fluval 405 is rated for 100 gallons / 3 = 33 "turtle gallons". An eheim rated for 125 is really = 42 turtle gallons. 42+33 and you have enough filtration for a 75 gallon turtle tank. This is the biggest part of your problem. You should seriously look at selling those filters and upgrading to a single Fluval FX5.

If you have a good amount of substrate in your tank ie sand, you will get a decent build up of nitrifying bacteria on the sand. With that... if you have a dirty filter... take it apart and rinse it under hot water. Get it clean. Don't worry about the bacteria colony, it will re-establish itself fairly quickly from the substrate.

Also if you are seeing 6.0-8.0 Ammonia, are you sure your test is good? If you're using those silly dip strips please toss them in the trash. They are super inaccurate. Go to your local pet store and get an API test kit for ammonia. You can either get the freshwater kit (ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, and pH) or you can just get the ammonia test by itself. API and Sailfert brand drop test kits are very good. Test kits do have a shelf life after which they become inaccurate and well useless. If your test kit is old... toss it and get a new one. The $8 you spend on an API test kit might save you hours and hours of frustration chasing down a problem that isn't there.

Test your source water... your tap water before you put it in the tank. If your tap water reads 6-8 with the test kit... no amount of water changes will help you as you're just putting more ammonia in the tank.

Your vet is correct in telling you not to dechlorinate the water. Do not use any water conditioner.
For a brand new tank... you'll want to use some new activated carbon in your filter for the first day or so. The carbon will yank out any chloramine in the water supply. Chlorine we don't worry about.. it will evaporate on its own. Having the filters running and cycling water will speed up chlorine evaporation. Most municipal water supplies use chloramine instead of straight chlorine now anyway because it doesn't evaporate. (chloramine is chlorine bonded to ammonia).

Carbon can last anywhere from a few days to 2-3 weeks and then it becomes spent and needs to be replaced. In a brand new tank... there's so much gunk in the tap water that it only lasts a few days before it becomes useless.

After you've ran the carbon on the tank for a day or so, you can choose to replace the carbon with fresh carbon or switch to Purigen. Purigen is sythetic resin beads made by Seachem. Purigen will attract and grab much of the dissolved organics from the water... which will leave your water very clear and not smelling. Purigen can be cleaned and re-used. I clean mine monthly and replace it after a year.

Unless you have free floating sand particles or dirt from a planted tank in the water, you don't need polishing pads. The pads gunk up quickly and become a source for nitrate build up.

No matter what brand filter you have, the filter media should look like this (after the initial tank setup).

Following the water flow... the water should hit the media in the following order:
1. Coarse foam fiter (mechanical filtration)
2. Purigen or Carbon (chemcial filtration)
3. Rest of the filter filled with as much spun glass or ceramic bio media as will fit (bio media)
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Post Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:39 pm   Re: Cloudy water problems

I do feed them in the tank, always have. The eat mostly reptomin pellets. As much as I've tried veggies they won't touch them. They also get some minnows about once a month. Lately they are eating everything I give them. A few months ago I was having some issues with getting them to eat but they've recovered from that and are seemingly healthy eaters now. The only change recently is my largest female started laying eggs last month and many of them were shredded before I got to remove them and so I was doing more frequent water changes to try to get rid of any egg gunk left on the bottom of the tank. It took her 3 weeks to lay all the eggs so it was an ongoing process to try to clean the tank. After my last post I cleaned the one filter again and changed out about 80% of the water only for it to look like I didn't do a thing. Now I guess I'll have to clean the fluval. I've been avoiding it only because it takes me over an hour to get it re-primed and going again (not including the time actually cleaning it), by which time I'm wanting to just throw it in front of a fast moving semi! Well, good times ahead...
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Post Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:42 pm   Re: Cloudy water problems

From a thread about priming Fluval 05 series filters, I'm going to quote myself here...


VeipaCray wrote:When you clean your filters, you don't need to re-prime.

Follow these directions in this exact order when you're doing your filter maintenance... print them and store the paper by your filter.

- don't let the water level drop below the filter intake. letting air in the intake path breaks the siphon -

1. Close the aquastop valve while the filter is running
2. Unplug the filter
NEVER NEVER pull up on the primer/plunger - doing so breaks the siphon in the hoses and lets them drain back into the tank
3. Lift the release lever and disconnect hoses from canister filter
4. Do your maintenance
5. Fill the canister with as much water as you can before you seal the top half back on
6. attach the hoses - NEVER NEVER pull up on the primer / plunger
7. lock the hose connector in place and open the aqua stop valve all the way
8. walk away for a minute - your canister is filling all the way because you left the hose primed and the siphon just restarted
9. turn the canister on... it will start
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Post Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:16 pm   Re: Cloudy water problems

Thank you VeipaCray. Sorry I didn't see your previous post until after my last comments. I forgot to mention that my 125 gal is only about 2/3 full to prevent escape, therefore the filters should be adequate (or very close to it). I would love an fx5, it's just not in my budget any time soon. I've used these 2 filters on this tank for the past 2 years without any problems til now. I don't have any substrate, just a couple small pieces of driftwood. I am using the API kit, not strips. My kit is about 2 years old. How old is too old? I use this same kit on 2 smaller fish tanks and get 0 ammonia readings there. I will definitely look into getting Purigen. I have always used my media in the same order you suggest. What I thought were polishing pads are actually fine pads. Is that the same thing? Thanks for the re-priming directions. I thought I was doing it the way you describe, however I could never tell that it was filling up the rest of the way and I was probably plugging it in too soon and/or pulling on the primer plunger when I shouldn't have been. I got this thing used and the online user manual is quite different from this. I will give it a try. Thank you.
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Post Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:35 pm   Re: Cloudy water problems

It's hard to say how long test kits last because we never know how long they've been sitting in a warehouse or shelf before we purchase them. If you get a $1 gallon of distilled water from the grocery store, your test should read 0 ammonia. If it reads anything other than 0, the kit is bad. Not to say that's an accurate way to tell if the kit is still good, but its cheap and better than nothing.

I'm also curious what your tap water ammonia levels are. What ammonia level is the cold tap water straight out of your faucet?

Your cloudiness sounds like a bacteria bloom. It sounds like the nitrifying bacteria are blooming at an huge rate to attempt to keep up with their food source ammonia. I am wondering if your tap water is high in ammonia and every time you do a water change you just re-fuel the fire so to speak.

The fluval fine pads are used for water polishing. I'd take those out of your filter next time you clean it.

How much bio media do you have in your filter? Not having a substrate forces you to need more biological filtration media to provide enough surface area for the bacteria to colonize. Sand is a really good substrate... it's relatively easy to keep clean but provides a ton of surface area for your natural biological filter.
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Post Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 5:53 pm   Re: Cloudy water problems

The tap water tests between 0 and 0.25 ammonia and the distilled is 0. My eheim filter is about 30% ceramic rings and the fluval has 2 of the baskets full of bio balls and 1 of ceramic rings, which is about 50% of total media. The scuzz in the tank seems to have areas that settle on the bottom of the tank. Does the bacteria settle in a way that you can actually see it on the bottom of the tank or is this just pulverized turtle poo? I try to vacuum up the settled material but often times just putting the vacuum in and getting the suction going stirs it up again. If the cloudiness were an algae bloom wouldn't having changed 80% of the water the other day have gotten rid of most of it? Oh, and the fine pads I have are the Eheim ones and the diameter is about an inch smaller than my canister. I think they were for a newer model that is narrower, but my local stores kinda suck when it comes to selection so I thought I'd see if they would work. I had been putting one of them on top of the ceramic rings, but took it out this last time to see if water flow would improve and it did.
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