Other Turtle Discussion :: biting boy turtle

[pennyharger]

I have a pair of three yr old RES..he is now doing a hand jive in her face relentlessly and has taken to biting her near her tail...she is very distressed and he won't give it up. Is this mating behavior or a sign of something serious? He has been taking tim e outs in the family bathtub but that is not a good option. Have any of you experienced this?

[sonyj]

As I said in your previous posts, many owners find themselves in the position of having to separate their turtles permanently at this point. If the aggressive turtle shows no sign of backing down, he can or more than likely will do very serious harm to the other turtle.

Male turtles do mature faster than female turtles: Males 2-5 years and around 4 inches in length; Females 5-7 years and 6 to 7.5 inches in length. So it could be that he is trying to mate with her, but if they are the same age, she may not be ready yet. He will probably continue to harass her until harm is done.

How big are they (Straight Carapace Length = shell length from tip to tip not including the curve)? What size of tank are they in together? Sometimes this behavior is a sign of aggression due to inadequate housing size. If they each do not have the space they need it can lead to aggression. Recommended tank size is ten gallons per inch of turtle. If you add the SCL of your turtles together and times by ten then you'll have the minimum size tank they need.

Some turtles simply will not get along and therefore must be permanently separated. Owners of multiple turtles must be aware of this and ready to step in if the aggression gets serious. Each turtle has its own personality and some will simply not be compatible with others over a period of time, even if they've been together since they were younger.

[steve]

The only thing I can think of adding is that you could try to add more cover/hiding areas so they don't have a constant view of each other. It's a long shot and a bigger tank may not help either. A separate tank setup is another, though difficult option.

[marisa]

How badly is she being bitten (to the point that the area is bleeding and sore)? A male can do a number on a female, especially if she doesn't respond to his advances.

How big of a tank are they in and how big are they? I'd consider getting something like a Rubbermaid storage container (stock tank would be better) and keeping them separate for a while.

[pennyharger]

What thoughtful and useful feedback. Thank you all so much. I have learned already that size of tank is inadequate. She has a 8 inch SCL and he is 4, they are the same age and dwell in a bow front 46 gallon tank. So I know they need more. They have a clean habitat but she is so large that no space there will allow her to hide from him. He is basking in the bathtub now and she is grown very subdued over the last three days. She has learned to put her butt up against a corner because he only bites her in the flesh next to her tail...and won't let go! I have examined her and she is not bleeding and the skin is not abraded but she is distressed and today has not eaten. He does that flapping of hands in her face and stays nose to nose with her all day and that she tolerates but this new thing, the biting, is very different. Marissa, I am especially moved by your quote...you are very correct on that. I will make some changes. I am so relieved to have this feedback. Knowledge is power.

[marisa]

I think, pennyharger, that you are already a part of it. Let us know how they're doing with any changes you make.

[pennyharger]

Marissa, Thank you so much for your encouragement. We have already made ready for him to have his own tank. That will for now give her 46 gallons and he will have 40 gallons...do they like deep water with a dock, because when I had it that way, they seldom climbed out or basked. I lowered the water and they seem to like it better with being livelier and busier. Do they eventually need these 100 gallon tanks?? I cannot imagine a filter big enough!
Also when they don't bask, is it normal? I guess each detail means something to me and I have a lot to learn.
What a great venue this is!!!

[sonyj]

RES are aquatic turtles and love to swim. Generally recommended is to fill the tank as high as you can without giving them room to escape.

For the basking area, what are you using? A floating dock? What is the basking temperature? What is the current water temperature? Do they have both a heat light and a UVB light directly over their basking area? Sorry for the questions, but most of the time when they don't bask the answer can be found in the set-up.

Generally the basking temp needs to be at least ten degrees higher than the water temp to entice them to bask. Water temp should be between 72-75 for older turtles and the basking area can be around 88-90.

Sometimes if they don't feel there's enough privacy, they won't bask either. Basking puts them in a vulnerable position to us "predators". If they are in a high traffic area or their basking area is in the open this may cause them not to bask.


The smallest tank size for one mature female should be 120 gallons. They most definitely need this room to swim, exercise and live a happy, healthy life. Many people use canister filters, such as the XP3, when getting up into the larger tanks. Look into upgrading both of their habitat's in the near future. Planning ahead saves money in the long run as well. Sometimes there are great deals in the classifieds or on sites such as craigslist.org. Stock tanks from tractor supply stores are a great alternative to a glass tank as they are more economical for the size.

I know this is so overwhelming at first, but the more research you do the better life you can provide for your turtles. Just ask if you have any questions.

[marisa]

Pennyharger, ideally, she should have double the size tank she's in now (although, she must like the calm of being by herself), and I'd buy even bigger if she's 8 inches now. If they prefer water that's less deep (but at least the length of their shells), I'd give them that for now and gradually raise it. Does the dock you use move or is it stable? Perhaps they found it difficult to get on when the water was deeper. What kind of dock are you using (and what kind of dock is in the new set-up?). Since you do have two set-ups, you need to duplicate the equipment (lighting, filtration, water heater, etc.) for the second set-up as well.

I'm a fan of stock tanks and have several, the largest being 110 gallons. They're cheaper than tanks, durable, and easy to move and clean. What is sacrificed (for some people) is the ability to view turtles from the side, since they're not made of glass. I've found them equally fascinating to view from above, however, and don't have the frantic begging many people have when turtles are in glass tanks and they walk by them. An alternative to the stock tank would be a preformed pond.

Yes, you can get filters for 100-gallon tanks (for much larger tanks, actually), however the filter you get should be rated for 3X the tank, since turtles are a lot messier than fish and the latter is what the majority of filters are made for. If you have a large glass tank on a stand, a good canister filter will help keep up the water quality. If you have something large on the floor (i.e., stock tank), a canister (with modifications) but even better would be a pond filter. The bigger the container (whatever you get) and the better the filter, the less work you'll have in the long run and the more you'll be able to enjoy your turtles.

Re the basking---turtles will bask for varying amounts of time depending on a number of factors. If you think they're not basking at all, check to make sure they can get on the basking area easily. Check the temps with a thermometer to see if the water temp is around 75F and the basking area is high 80's to 90F. Put a screen (I usually use cardboard) around the tank where the basking area is so they aren't startled if they are basking and see sudden movement (they'll feel safer). The turtle that's gotten the new set-up, however, may not bask for a bit until she's more used to new surroundings. They can be sensitive to changes in their habitat.

[pennyharger]

Well.....he is happier with his basking spot and having a good time in his own tank. She is left in the 46 gal tank and brick to climb on (because the floating dock we have for her is the largest I could find and she easily sank it) and she half heartedly climbs on it but there is no merriment in it for her at all. She is glad to not be bitten but she is lounging quietly and sticking her heard out of bit. She is in about 8 inches of water. Eating some. Bright eyed. Alert.
I priced 120 gal tanks today...$500 plus and that will never happen here. Here it is..a sad reflection that I think my resources have begun to be outstripped by their needs. I do want them to have a happy life and I am committed to it within the money I have...and the space...I have a small house. And I have a small bedroom for them that they share with a teenager and there is no way to grow out...I think I am hitting a wall here. No creature needs to be kept in a way that they cannot help themselves and are left with this miserable thing.
Do turtles need one another? Is a solitary confonement tht same injury, or near, as that of a dog or cat? Please advise me anyone. I am disturbed about all of this.
I have a Magnum 350 filter on the larger tank and that bearly keeps up. What kind of tank does 3X a 120 gal tank?
sigh...

[marisa]

Consider those stock tanks and pond filters! For the stock tanks, find out if there's a Tractor Supply Co. store anywhere near you (do a search).