Other Turtle Discussion :: Another confirmation of a disappointing trend (Article)

[reptilegrrl]

Jenaero said:

"Salmonella is a necessary gut bacteria that EVERY TURTLE carries!"

No, it's not. Salmonella is not a necessary gut bacteria, and not every turtle carries it.

[marisa]

Thank you. I've always privately questioned this information and never could find anything to support it, even though it's been mentioned in several threads.

[sonyj]

Since I've been on this site, I've always heard that it salmonella was in 'all' turtles etc etc... I took it to mean it was neccessary because no one stated different in all the posts. Your comments (Marisa and reptilegrrl) got me wondering so I thought I'd do some more research on it instead of just going by what I've read. Here's what I found, so I thought I'd pass it along for what it's worth.

Studies have shown that 85% of all turtles, 77% of lizards, and 92% of snakes carry one of the 500 serotypes of Salmonella.

from PetEducation.com

I guess you could say the majority of turtles have it which may be why it's often said that turtles (as a whole) carry salmonella.

[reptilegrrl]

What studies are those? Seriously. What snakes are they studying? What turtles? What lizards? Did they study diverse wild populations as well as captives? The fact that it is on a commercial website doesn't make it true- they are just parroting B.S. they have read elsewhere. According to the FDA, there are more than 2300 serotypes of Salmonella, so I don't have much faith in peteducation.com. Do not believe it just because it is on the internet.

The FDS website also doesn't even MENTION reptiles as a significant risk vector.

For instance, studies have shown that snakes frequently get salmonella when they are fed chicken by breeders or keepers trying to cut corners. Well, what if a snake is not being fed fowl? How would it get salmonella.

E. coli is a necessary gut bacteria, and so are several types of lactobacteria. In fact, I take a probiotic every day to refresh and supplement my gut bacteria. Salmonella, on the other hand, is NOT a necessary gut bactera. It makes people SICK when it gets in our gut.

[steve]

I wasn't going to jump in but I have this link on this the main site that I decided to re-read: Human Health Hazards Associated with Turtles

Salmonella are naturally occurring bacteria in turtles and those with Salmonella usually do not appear sick in any way. In addition, turtles do not shed Salmonella all of the time. So, just because a turtle might have one negative test for Salmonella doesn't mean that they are not infected. It could mean that the turtle was not shedding Salmonella on the day it was tested.

The public needs to recognize that turtles are a possible source of salmonellosis for humans; and that turtles are not suitable pets in households with young children or immunocompromised persons.

I've never said or wrote that all turtles carry it either (not that I know of anyway), but hopefully this adds some clarification. For what it's worth on, the actual law Turtles - Ban on Interstate and Intrastate Sales and Distribution states:

Turtles may carry Salmonella genus (including Salmonella arizona strains) bacteria and may transmit these bacteria to humans, causing salmonellosis.

The CDC has the same info from the first quote, though they also mention this: "Remember, turtles are cute, but contaminated. Handle all turtles and surfaces that have come in contact with turtles as if they are contaminated with Salmonella, because there is a good possibility that they are."

As for the "study", the article at http://www.anapsid.org/salmthennow.html has similar results from the peteducation site, it lists its source at the bottom.

[reptilegrrl]

I have actually rehabbed turtles that were desperately ill with salmonellosis. One did not make it. The other is still with me today.

In all honesty, I think that salmonellosis in reptiles is almost entirely created by poor conditions in captivity. In fact, ARAV says: "Healthy reptiles living in proper environments are less likely to shed Salmonella bacteria." I think this is because those reptiles are less likely to be infected.

[marisa]

I've read that about 90% of reptiles carry the salmonella bacteria (perhaps this is used to accommodate the stats above, as an average). They can carry the bacteria and be seemingly healthy. I think that they're more likely to be infected than not, and poor living conditions just bring out the illness. If AVAV says that living in a proper environment are less likely to shed salmonella bacteria, that doesn't mean that they're not infected with it, just that they're not shedding it from their intestines (which, it is known, they do in times of illness or stress. Poor living conditions can certainly create stress and illness).

Whenever any one has asked how to protect themselves from salmonella, I have always responded (in addition to the chorus of responses to wash hands) to keep the turtle healthy. A healthy turtle will be much less likely to discharge salmonella bacteria, even though the turtle may be a carrier.

My comment above was more regarding the issue of the bacteria being a necessary gut bacteria (which I found hard to believe).