General Care Discussion :: About to purchase a couple turtles

[Rickiew04]

I'm going to be purchasing a couple turtles within the next month or so...and I was wondering what I should do with regards to the sex of the turtles. Should I get 1 male and 1 female? 2 males? 2 females? what would be the advantages or disadvantages to each scenario? Any additional info and advice would also be greatly appreciated!

[jenaero]

Ok let me try to answer this....

1 male + 1 female = eggs, baby turtles, possibility of male harassing female

2 males = possible aggression, territorial issues

2 females = same possibility of agression, HUGE tank, still have to deal with unfertilized eggs and providing a nesting area

When keeping 2 or more turtles, regardless of sex, together there is always a risk that they wont get along, even if they do at first. They'll require a large tank (I have my 2 girls in a 125gal and I will need to upgrade later). If they don't get along you're looking at 2 full setups to separate them.

Another issue is if one gets sick, then they'll need to be separated so the others dont get it. That's usually long-term because it takes so long for a reptile to recover fully from illness.

They'll fight over food unless fed in separate containers.

That's all I can think of right now but I'm sure there's more.

If I had to do it over again, I'd only get 1 res. Mine are both females that will require a nesting area. They'll both potentially get a foot long and they do fight over food.

[industrial_girl_2000]

Personally, I would start off with one turtle and go from there. Is there any reason why you want more than one? Turtles really don't need to socialize with other turtles (they can get extremely territorial) & if you are a new keeper, it's good to learn with one first (one can be enough, trust me on this).

Here is what happens when you mix the genders. First of all, if they are over 4 inches in length & the gender characteristics are apparent, they have pretty much gone thru puberty & you will have to deal with the constant mating ritual between the male & female which can be dangerous for the female if she rejects the male's advances. They will CONSTANTLY fight, snap at each other, and one turtle can get seriously injured in this fight, requiring costly vet visits (dislocated arms, tail, male's broken nails, bite marks which can get infected, etc). Secondly, the female can start laying eggs 3 times a year when she is with a male which can be a REAL mess for you and dangerous for her if you don't have a special set up which can accomodate this egg-laying (I have gone thru this personally! It's NOT fun!). Egg laying & mating creates a HUGE amount of work & stress for both of them as well as for you (and can make a big mess if the female lays eggs in the tank since you will be cleaning the tank *constantly* & changing tank water all the time gets really tiresome!).

Also, having more than one turtle means having a very large tank setup. I have a 9 inch adult female RES in a 90 gallon tank, which is considered the "bare minimum" in terms of tanksize for her. When you have 2 turtles, you will have to have a tank that can accomodate a minimum of 10 gallons per inch of turtle shell length. So for example, if you have 2 four-inch long turtles, you will need a minimum of an 80 gallon tank, and that's not counting when they grow because then you will need to upgrade to an even BIGGER tank once they grow (which they will, since they don't stay small forever). Males grow to be around 8-9 inches in length, females grow anywhere up to 12 inches in length. So just ONE 12 inch long turtle alone needs a 120 gallon tank.

Having said all that, having ONE turtle honestly is a great way to start & trust me, you will have plenty to do with just the one. You can learn all about how to care for them properly (this website has tons of great info so you came to the right place!) and then later if you feel like getting another one, you can. I am not trying to sound negative when I tell you all of the stuff above, just trying to give you a very realistic picture of what it means to have two turtles in the same tank together (since I witnessed this personally with 2 turtles of my own many yrs ago!). I have two turtles now (recently got my 2nd one which is a hatchling baby), but they are in separate setups and *never* interact with each other. It's just safer that way.

[Rickiew04]

I've read in other posts the RES like someone to play with making them happier and it actually helps keep them healthier. Is that true? And I also REALLY appreciate you taking time to answer my question so thoroughly!!!

[industrial_girl_2000]

I've read in other posts the RES like someone to play with making them happier and it actually helps keep them healthier. Is that true? And I also REALLY appreciate you taking time to answer my question so thoroughly!!!

Definitely NOT true. The best example of that is my Sheba. She has been by herself for almost 7 yrs and is so happy & sweet with just me as her "friend". And I have seen the "flip side" of her when she used to fight with the male I had in her tank with her. Holy Guacamole, Batman. She could be FIERCE!!!! The poor little 4" male was running for his poor little life when she decided to let him have it! So I gave the male I had away to a friend, and decided to have Sheba "go it alone." HUGE difference. So peaceful & wonderful without another turtle in the tank with her.

I have had Sheba for 17 yrs now & she is so responsive & loving towards me that I even let her walk around the house (she follows me around like a little dog). It's hilarious. So to answer your question, No, they aren't happier/healthier having another turtle around.

[Rickiew04]

Ok, you've convinced me!! It's very helpful hearing your advice based on experience. I'll probably get a male then. The pet store I was planning on getting it at is a very nice pet store and they are about 1 1/2 inches. Do most people buy them smaller and raise them or is that a good size to start with? About how old do you think a turtle that is 1 1/2 in. is? Thanks again for your help and advice!!!

[industrial_girl_2000]

Hey, I hate to tell you this, but you won't know it is a male until it grows to be about 4 inches long (!). Only then can you see the super long front nails + thick long tail ("male") or the very short front nails with tiny tail ("female").

And there really is no way to tell how old a turtle is unless you actually watched it hatch. You can prolly guess that it is less than 6 months, but you never will know for sure. Sorry!

Before you buy, make sure you read over the basic care sections on the main page www.readerslider.com (scroll down & click on the topics). If you already know the "good" way to care for a turtle, then you will also be able to make sure that the pet store is taking good care of them too (by seeing what kind of tank set up they have them in) & hopefully be able to get a healthy baby.

FYI: the proper tank set up for baby RES is going to be a bit of an investment, but once you have the right set up, then it isn't expensive after that. The important thing to remember with turts is to "prevent" sickness so you don't have to pay lots of money at the vet!

Here's an example of what I mean:
20gal tank - $25
50W water heater - $10
floating basking area - $15-$20
UVA/UVB light bulb - $40
clamp lamp fixture - $20
water filter - $30
charcoal pad for filter - $3 or you can get a container of charcoal for $15
small nylon bag for making your own charcoal filters - $1
cuttlebone (calcium - good for their bones) - $2
container of Reptomin food pellets - $5

So an initial/basic set up (with no fancy stuff added) can cost around $160. It sounds like a lot, but the good thing is that most of the stuff doesn't need to be replaced all the time (obviously you have to buy filter stuff & food which isn't too expensive). And when turtles are kept in the right setup, they will be healthy & make AWESOME pets that can be life-long companions with minimal care.

[Rickiew04]

I actually owned a turtle back when I was a child, but it died because of what I later found out to be inadequate environment, food, lighting, etc... So I've been researching a lot and reading this forum and I've learned a lot of things.

I guess I'm going to have to pick a "gender neutral" name then won't I...haha!

About how long do you think the 20gallon tank will last until it is too small for the turtle?

I noticed that for your RES Siobhan you have it labeled as hatchling...what exactly is a hatchling?

[industrial_girl_2000]

Kudos to you for doing your research before you buy!!! I applaud you! I think many of us started off like you did; receiving very little info when we got our turtles. Personally, my first 2 turtles died of pneumonia ("respiritory illness" or RI for short). It's a very unfortunate way to learn.

A hatchling is a turtle that is less than 1 year old. After the first year, it is called a "yearling."

Not sure how long the 20gal tank will last for a hatchling. It depends on a turtle's genetics, food, & living conditions how fast it will grow. Technically you need to upgrade to a bigger tank once the baby grows to be between 2-3 inches long if you start off with a 20gal. For most hatchlings, that is about a year's worth of growth.

[Rickiew04]

Ok great!!!! I thank you again for are your help!!!! If I have anymore questions your the one I'm coming to! lol

[industrial_girl_2000]

Thanks but there are a lot of great people on this board! :blush:

I'm just the one that happened to be online at the time!

Let us know how you do!

[Rickiew04]

Ok...a few other questions.

I've heard the horror stories of people having gravel in their tank and their turtle eating it. Should I not put any gravel in my tank? Or should I buy a certain size gravel?

What type of water heater should I use?

And I'm a little confused on the lighting situation. I need to have 2 lights correct? A heater lamp, and the UVA/UVB light? How long does the UVA/UVB light need to be for a 20 gallon tank? Because the pet store sells many different sizes. Any additional info on lighting would also be helpful.

[jenaero]

Yes, gravel can be ingested, causing impaction. A lot of us here either use no substrate or we use large river rocks. Anything that's larger than the turtle's head is fine.

I've heard Ebo Jager heaters are unbreakable but I've only got experience with Tronic (which will need a heater guard).

You can use a regular bulb for heat and a special bulb for uvb (reptisun is a good brand. I think they make up to 10.0). The light should be placed directly above the basking area and does not need to cover the entire tank.

Or you could use a uva/uvb combo bulb but they're quite expensive and still need to be replaced every 6 months to a year.

[industrial_girl_2000]

Some answers:
1.) NO gravel. River rocks are fine. Just wash them really well (boiling is best, to kill any bacteria).

2.) Submersible glass tube water heaters are fine & most people prefer those since they keep the best (most consistent) temps. Do not rely on a lamp to heat the water. Lamps are a separate item:

3.) Many people here use the clamp lamp fixtures for their lamps (take a look at some of the set ups in the photo section and you will see lamps clamped onto the wall of the tank). It's up to you what kind of light fixture you want to use. Personally I am a big fan of the clamp lamps since it allows the tank to be very open on top & you can control how far away the lamp is from your turtle & move it up down, around, wherever to give a good distance from the turtle. The Reptisun compact 5.0 is what I use for UVB & it is good because it also has UVA as well. But you have to measure the temp of your basking dock & make sure it is a good temp. If it isn't warm enough up there, your turtle may not bask (bask temp should be about 10 degrees warmer than the water to encourage them to bask; water temp should be around 78-80F, basking temp around 88-95, just like a nice hot summer day outdoors!). In my hatchling's case, I had to buy a 2nd clamp lamp for a separate UVA bulb (75W) to heat up the basking area a little more. So start with the UVB bulb like the Reptisun and you can always add more UVA if you need it to be warmer up there. UVA lamps should be a minimum of 10 inches away from the turtle (12 inch min for UVB) to avoid burning the poor little guy.

Also, shop online for the bulbs if you can because you will save money. Some places will ship for free if you spend more than $50 online (either petsmart or petco, can't remember which). You will spend $50 easy if you buy a reptisun 5.0 & fixture online. You can really save $$$ if you shop online since the store prices are usually higher. When I bought my adult turtle's UVB bulb online, I saved $12 over the store price, and that was AFTER I paid shipping & handling...!

[Rickiew04]

Do I need a heater guard for the glass tube water heaters?