General Care Discussion :: More nitrite etc. questions....

[kikicool]

Okay so! I still didn't get an ammonia tester kit (I will!) But my last test on my OTHER kit showed high levels of... well here is what concerns me:

General Hardness: 60 (middle of range)
Nitrite: 3 (also middle)
Nitrate: 40 (low middle)

I assume the nitrate and nitrite should be 0? Does anyone have a product or method for reducing these? I don't even know where to start.... hopefully this is why they aren't shedding scutes, so if I can clear this up it'd be great.... Much thanks!

[kikicool]

One more thing: I just read (in the care sheets) that I shouldn't use those little white turtles as conditioners. I tried that for the first time this time... I won't do it again. But the care sheets also recommend frequent water changes as the best option. As I described under another post, I change about 25% each week, and 100% monthly. So... ach! help! Thanks

[SpotsMama]

Nitrite (with an "i") is harmful and the reading should be zero.

Nitrate (with an "a") is less harmful in moderate amounts. A reading of 40 ppm or so in a tank is tolerable.

Both are byproducts of the breakdown of ammonia. Here's how it goes:

1. Turtle's pee ammonia. It is harmful and unhealthy. In an established healthy tank the test reading should be zero. What gets rid of ammonia is your bio-filter. The good bacteria in the bio filter convert the ammonia to......

2. Nitrite. It is also harmful. In an established healthy tank its reading should also be zero. What gets rid of the nitrite is also the bio filter. A second group of good bacteria in a bio filter convert nitrite to......

3. Nitrate. Not so harmful in moderate amounts. Good fertilizer for plants. If you don't have living plants in your tank and you don't change the water very often then the nitrates will build up and algae will thrive. You get rid of nitrates by changing the water and by keeping living plants in the tank (hard to do with hungry turtles around).

When a tank is new it takes time for the bacteria in a bio filter to adjust to the correct levels - usually several weeks (up to around 6 weeks). Until the levels reach equilibrium, the water turns cloudy white with bacteria. Also during this start up time readings of ammonia and nitrite are high and will fluctuate. Eventually however the levels of bacteria and chemicals level out and the water becomes crystal clear and the readings of ammonia and nitrite go to zero!

If however the tank is too small for the size of the turtle, or the filter is inadequate, or if there's overfeeding of the turtle, then the bio filter will never be able to handle the ammonia load properly and test results will fluctuate and there will be problems with odour and water clarity. The only alternative to fixing the size of the tank, the filter or the diet is to keep changing the water all the time. With a tank the right size, good filter and appropriate turtle diet the water does not need to be changed nearly so often.

Here's a thorough and more scientific explanation of the whole thing:

http://www.redearslider.com/water_quality_issues.html

[kikicool]

Thanks, Spotsmama! Thanks for the info. It all makes sense but...here's the weird thing: the water is crystal clear, and there is no odor. I did just change it yesterday because (I mentioned in another post)... they ate some fish and THAT was stinky. But since I changed it, no odor.

So question: if ammonia/nitrites are at dangerous levels, will the water ALWAYS be cloudy, or stinky? Thanks for the help.

I DO have a filter with bio media, but maybe it isn't enough. Drats.

[SpotsMama]

When the ammonia rises then shortly thereafter the water will get cloudy and smelly. There's a bit of a lag time though. I know before I setup my good filter I put Spot in the tank for about two days so he could "seed" the water with ammonia and get the filter started, then I took him out and put him back in his outside pond. (I didn't want him to be in the tank while it was going through its cloudy stage though everyone says it won't hurt them).

I was amazed to find that, though it took maybe four or five days for the water to start to get really cloudy, after the first day the ammonia level was way way up there. Turtles pee a lot! So there was a lag time between when the water was contaminated with ammonia and when it started to look really bad. If I hadn't been trying to start the bio filter, at that point I would have changed the water. Instead I let it clear naturally over a period of weeks and its been clear and test results perfect (with one small blip with I got carried away with PH Down) ever since.

[kikicool]

Hm. This is all a lot of info. I'll try different options nad let you know how it turns out. Thanks so much for all the help!! Seems to me like this is the problem. Because before I changed the water, it had become quite cloudy, moreso than usual. I need to get an ammonia tester tomorrow!

[adam85491]

What is bio-media? I have a Tetra Reptofilter and I buy these white cartridges that have like mesh on the outside with black stuff in it. I also have a little black sponge type thing.

[SpotsMama]

Bio media is the name of anything that the good bacteria can colonize on. Something porous. The bacteria will colonize on anything in the tank - the basking platform, decorations. The media sold for the bio filter are designed to hold a lot of the bacteria. Ceramic rings and star shaped pieces of a plastic like material are the bio media most commonly sold specifically for an aquarium filter. Anything spongy though, like the sponges in your filter, while primarily designed as mechanical filters that capture particles, also function as bio media. The bio media in outdoor pond filters are usually just masses spongy, meshy materials.

I'm not familiar with your particular filter, but media with black stuff in them are usually filed with carbon. Carbon and some other things are a different kind of filter - chemical filters. Carbon helps keep your water clear and smelling good.

So there are three basic types of filters - mechnical, chemical and bio. A good canister filter has room for all three. A filter for a small aquarium may just be a mechanical filter, or a mechanical plus chemical filter.

[grey goose]

Turts are a lot tougher than fish. The main problem is a buildup of ammonia (the turts own waste will do this at a pace that will kill many types of fish). That's why turts need very heavy filtration, both mechanical and biological. The chemical (absorption with carbon) is optional, it just keeps the "smell" down. Ever get a whiff of ammonia? Pretty nasty. Your turts could get that everyday if you neglect to do a 20-50% water change (don't change out all the water!) every two weeks and clean the filter once a month.....If you stick to that rule, you shouldn't have to worry about the nitrates or nitrates.

[Cayte923]

Thanks for that excellent info about ammonia. It really helped me out! I found this... Bio-Slab
that I use for biological filtration. They make a wide variety for different filters. It's a little pricey but I have noticed a difference.

[kikicool]

Hey Cayte923, what do you do with the bio-slab? Can that just be placed inside the tank, or does it go in a filter? Looks good!

[Cayte923]

I ordered the Bio-Slab that fits directly into my AquaClear filter. AquaClears are small as far as what bio media I can put in them. But the slab doesn't take up much room and has alot of surface for the beneficial bacteria that can grow on it. I hope that helped and made sense! This daylight saving adjustment being 3 weeks early is rough!

[DavidY]

An important part of the process in establishing a new biological filtration (colonizing the bacteria) is that the nitrite needs to reach a certain level before the bacteria that eats it can establish itself, so you don't want to do too large a water change during this process. Also, when cleaning your filters, you don't want to kill the bacteria colonies that are living in the filter media. You need to gently rinse out the biomedia in water that is close to the temperature of the tank water. Don't use detergent, extreme hot or cold water, and don't scrub the media too hard.

[DavidY]

I almost forgot... you can also buy a liquid product that contains both types of bacteria that you can add to your water to help jumpstart the process. Add the first dose at the beginning when your ammonia is high. After the ammonia has gone down and the nitrites start to spike, add the second dose. It speeds up the whole process somewhat, but it's not a necessity.

[kikicool]

Thanks for all this info. Especially about cleaning the media--I was totally taking mine out and cleaning in hot water, making sure the water ran clear, etc. before putting it in again. Also, I think I will try the bio slab.

This is my project for tomorrow. It was supposed to be today but we're building a house and that kinda takes over the weekends THANKS!! All.