General Care Discussion :: Turts going at it!

[Rioghan]

Hey all.. new to forums, sorry if I missed on the "introduce yourself!" part or something.. Anyways been lurking forever, awesome site, lots of useful information, finally decided to join.


A little back ground on my two turts before I get to my current dilemma; I currently have a 18-20 month old male RES (Dracco) and a 5-6 month old Missisippi(sp?) map turtle (Kipper). Approximatley 2-2.5 monthes ago I started slowly introducing them to sharing a tank (putting the little guy int he big guys tank for an hour or two at time when I was present) and all seemed well, eventually I upgraded to half days, then full days and for the last 2 monthes they've been living together in perfect, fish terrorizing harmony. Until about 2 days ago that is; Latley they've been doing alot of claw waving and nipping. The big one tends to try bite the little ones shell and the little one goes straight for the big guys head. On top of this, both turtles are missing a half claw or two. So far, I haven't had any serious casualities but am getting a little worried at their ferocity towards one another. They're both eating/basking well as always and the only thing I can think of recent enough to affect them was a complete water change about 2-3 days before this behavior kicked in to high gear. I would've already seperated them and put the little guy back in his old tank but I oh so luck of draw broke that tank approx. 2 weeks ago.


Any suggestions on why they're suddenly having territorial/living together issues? Any advice on how to curb this behavior?


Thanks for all the help!

Rio

[megcornell]

Hi, how large are the turtles and how large is your tank?
It may be that they have outgrown their capacity to cohabitat in one tank of your current size.
Also it seems to me that by introducing the little guy into the big guys space may have made him appear as an "intruder". It may be best to get them a new large tank that isn't the territory of either turtle.
Also what are the sexes? Could it be mating aggression? Although given their young ages I doubt that.

[SpotsMama]

Putting them in a much larger tank may help, but it may that they'll need to be separated from now on. They can do some serious danger to one another. Would it be possible to replace the little guy's tank?

[Rioghan]

Meg: Dracco is approximatley 6inches and Kipper is approx 3.5
The tank is a 40 gallon: and before I get jumped on: I do intend to upgrade in the near future, however other financial priorties have come up that take precedance over such an upgrade (since I'd need a new filter etc. as well) so I may revert to a smaller tank for Kipper. As for introducing them, they lived together fine for a solid 2 monthes with no attacks and were frequently piling atop one another quite happily. Dracco is defitnley a male (he "ballooned" a few times) and Kipper I'm fairly confident is a male, as he is growing at about the same rate as Dracco did and his claws are getting longer, and the cloaical (sp?) on his tail is in the male area, or at least appears to be.. He's still a tad young to tell. Kipper, however, has been exhibiting some.. erm.. mounting tendancies on dracco.. and not the "friendly lets bask together" kind... I'm wondering if that might be annoying the bigger guy.


Spotsmama: I am hoping to go with the larger tank idea sooner then later, see above for reasoning as to not immediatley. Also, its my general understanding that turtles typically live together rather well, do they not? Dracco was still pretty young when I introduced kipper (just over a year old) so I had hoped that would play an important factor into him accepting sharing his tank. Also, Dracco lived rather peacfully with his former goldfish friend who died when we moved.

[SpotsMama]

Sometimes they do live together well but sometimes they don't. It partly depends on the individual turtles' personalities. A lot of turtles are pretty pugnacious. Being in a big tank helps. You might search around here and see what other peoples' experiences have been. Some are success stories but a lot are not. Since there is a pretty big size difference between the two you need to watch out for the little one that he doesn't get bullied and hurt. Sometimes, though, it's the small one that hurts the big one. It could be what megcornell said is what's going on - they've just gotten bigger. Or it could be like you suggested, that the raging hormones are causing friction. At any rate, something has to change!

Good luck. Keep us posted.

[industrial_girl_2000]

Uh oh, sounds like a territory battle going on here. I would separate them permanently. If you are already missing claws, that is a sign that it isn't just a minor skirmish. Turtles have to bite down HARD to snap a claw off another turtle. Soon, one could be missing a tail or part of a hand. Don't take the risk.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but in a 40 gallon tank, putting those 2 together would be like putting 2 fighting (human) siblings together in a closet-size room. Territory will be at a premium.

[grey goose]

You could try a bigger tank. It sounds like a dominance thing to me. Plus with one being smaller, he may learn to stay clear of the bigger guy, but that just sets up another set of problems, like the smaller one not being able to bask, or not being able to go in the water, etc. More room could solve that BUT....watch them closely and be prepared to separate. Things could get out of hand very quickly with two males......

[Rioghan]

Oddly enough, the little one is basking more.. If its getting a little to rambunctious for him, he hops on the dock and watches the big one. If the big one comes on the dock, their both fine with each other. I think it's defintley tank size issue, I'm going to try get a bigger tank tommorow and hope that helps.