General Care Discussion :: A lot of white on shell!

[dreambubbles]

I've had my turtle for slightly over half a year now. I recently noticed that when he's basking, his shell gets really white (as shown in the picture), but it's not white when he's in the water. He's been basking more than usual lately, but the large amount of white on his shell is a bit alarming.



Is this normal or should I be really concerned?

Thanks for your help!

[dreambubbles]

Oh, I should also mention, that black spot near the bottom of his shell...he had algae on him months ago and I didn't know what to do with it (hadn't found this forum yet) and I thought it was bad for him so I tried rubbing it off...and that black spot is the result of my poor care. Is there anything I can do now to fix it or is it too late?

[SpotsMama]

Looks like fungus to me. If it is, then it's usually treatable, but then you have to correct the underlying conditions that caused it or it will recur.

Did the white start with just a few scutes and then gradually spread to the others? Or did it appear all over at once like it is now?

Tell me more about the black area. It looks coal black in the picture. Is it that way in real life? When you rubbed off the algae, how did you do it and what did you use? Is the black area slimy? smelly? soft to the touch? How long ago did this occur?

In addition to the above questions, here are some more to help get this started:

How big is your turtle?
How long have you had it?

What is the water temperature?
Are you using a water heater?
How much water is in there?
Are you using a water conditioner?
Are you using any filtration?

What is the basking temperature?
Is there a basking light?
Is there a basking platform that is easy to climb on?
What kind is it or what is it made out of?
Is there a UVB light?

What have you been trying to feed it?
When was the last time your turtle ate?

How big is the tank/pond/enclosure?
Is the tank near a window?
Is the tank in a room with a lot of activity?

Have you read the Basic Care section?
Have you searched the forums for similar situations?

Is there any other unusual activity/symptoms?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

[dreambubbles]

Ok, to answer all your questions...

The white did start with just a few scutes and then spread to others.
The black spot is pretty much as it's seen in the picture. Unlike the white, it doesn't change when he's in and out of the water. I tried wiping the algae off with a paper towel. It's not slimy, smelly, or soft. This was probably around January.

About 1.5" in diameter and have had it since about October of last year.

Water temp is around 75 degrees. No water heater. Not sure exactly how many gallons of water's in there, but it's a pretty big tank (Herp's Habitat from Petsmart). No water conditioner (I fill the water with Brita water and change at least 80% of it every 2-3 days). Yes filter.

Basking temp is around 80 degrees. I didn't buy a fancy light set up for them, just using a desk lamp. They have stairs to get onto the basking platform...it's all built into the habitat. They get UVB light from the sunlight outside.

I feed it Reptomin regularly and occassionally dried krill and shrimp. He eats a lot.

Tank is near a window and it's in my bedroom. I'm in class all day and then tutoring people until evening...usually don't get home until midnight, with the exception of an hour or so here and there, so no, not a lot of activity.

Yes, i've read the Basic Care section and I've looked at other forums.

Nothing unusual about his behavior or eating habits, which is why I wasn't overly concerned to begin with.

[SpotsMama]

Ok. That helps. The white sounds like fungus. The black is puzzeling. It's really good that it's not slimy, smelly or soft. I don't know why wiping it with a paper towel would have done any damage. My guess is it wasn't really algae but a bacterial thing. Or maybe algae combined with bacteria. Hopefully someone else on here will know more about it.

On the white, if it's fungus, the problem is that the fugus damages the shell and eats into it. If the infection gets too deep, it can actually breach the shell and allow infection to get into the turtle's body, which is really bad. Yours has a pretty extensive infection. Don't panic, though. At one point mine had an even more extensive infection and he's doing real well now. Gradually over a period of about a year he has been shedding the white pieces of shell and he's almost entirely black now.

There's a whole list of things that need to be in place to keep a turtle shell healthy:

1. Clean water. Sounds like you are makeing a good effort but it's hard to tell because it's not clear how much water is in the turtle's tank. The more water there is the easier it is to keep clean. Can you estimate the gallons in the tank?

2. Good light. She needs to bask exposed to UVB light as this enables her to metabolize calcium which, as you know, if essential for shell and bone health. The light from a window is not going to do it - window glass almost entirely filters out the UVB light. You really need to get a special UVB light bulb to use in addition to the heat bulb.

3. Drying out. She needs to bask long enough that her shell completely dries out - top and bottom - on a regular basis. This needs to occur almost daily. What motivates a turtle to bask is heat. The 80 degree temperature at the basking spot is not sufficient to motivate your turtle to bask like she should. Your heat bulb is ok - it just needs to be closer to the basking spot. You keep moving the light around and measuring the basking temp until you get it at a steady 88 to 90 degrees.

4. Diet - In addition to the other nice things in a turtle's diet, she needs to have plenty of calcium. Lot's of people make sure there's enough calcium by providing a cuttlebone - the same kind you get for parakeets. You can put pieces of the cuttlebone in the tank and your turtle will graze on them as she needs calcium.

Whew! Why don't you look this over. The next thing is to discuss is what to do about your turtle's current condition.

[SpotsMama]

I've got another question. It looks kind of black between the scutes. Are the seams between the scutes the same as the black at the back? Are the seams smelly, soft or slimy?

[the_orphaned]

I think the black portions might actually be gray? It's pretty normal right when they grow and the space between scutes turn gray? Anyway, looks like fungus. I would suggest moving your turtle away from the window. The sunlight from the window is a fungus magnet. How often do you clean your tank? Not change water but actually scrub the tank. Thats one of the causes of shell fungi, dirty tanks.

I am curious about that sunlight, since the window glass filters it, where does your turtle get the beneficial UV rays? Don't know what kind of fungus is that but I call that "petshop fungus" since most of the turtles sold at petshops here that are neglected often have the same problems. This is usually due to (1) dirty tank, not water, (2) not enough good UV, (3) not enough calcium, and (4) very humid conditions. I am guessing that he's in a humid environment (plastic container indoor) with little beneficial UV light which is why the fungus is thriving.

Hope that helps.

[marisa]

dreambubbles, how many turtles do you have--you talked about your turtle and then mentioned turtles (plural). If you have more than one, does the other one have a similar problem? About the turtle in the pic, you said your turtle gets UVB from the sunlight, but it doesn't sound like he's getting it directly, but through a window, in which case he's not really getting UVB at all. Do you take him outside on a regular basis to bask? If not, he needs a UVB light.

Does the white come off at all (don't rub at it like you did the black scute)? Is it cottony? You could try a little white vinegar on a cute tip on part of a scute in the back and see if it comes off. If it doesn't, come off easily, just leave it.

I'm wondering how much your turtle actually basks with a basking temp of 80F (should be 10 degrees higher). And does your turtle "bask" with the back end in the water a lot? The white in the back to me doesn't look the same as the marginal scutes in the front (unless the white is progressing to the front and hasn't turned really white yet). What kind of basking area does your turtle have?

I've never heard of window sunlight being a fungus magnet, but your tank is more apt to develop algae and may heat up too much in the summer if it's in front of a window. Bacteria will breed quickly in a tank with water that's not kept clean, though, and will contribute to fungus (am not sure if it really is). How much water is in the tank? (How many containers of Brita water does it take to get the water to the level your turtle has in the tank? Why are you using Brita water? Regular tap water should be fine, and if it's treated with chlorine/chloramine, just using dechlorinator to eliminate it make it OK to use...

The black scute looks lower than the surrounding scutes. Did you rub it off when you took off the algae? If so, it shouldn't take that much effort to remove algae.

I'd get a UVB light, warm up the basking area to 90F so he'll be more apt to bask for longer periods of time, move the tank, and if the tank isn't being cleaned and water changed regularly, get on a more frequent cleaning/changing schedule.

The seam should not be smelly, really soft (it is a more sensitive area, but shouldn't be mushy) or slimy. If a turtle is growing, it will appear lighter in the water than out of it.

[SpotsMama]

If there is any bleeding at all or if you find any deep pits in your turtle's shell you need to see a vet right away because she'll need antibiotics.

My opinion is that if there is a chance that a shell is infected with bacteria or fungus then it's better to treat it rather than wait until it potentially gets a lot worse and threatens the turtle's life.

There are a number of recommended treatments for shell infections. Here are suggestions from another well respected site which recommends Acriflavine:

http://www.austinsturtlepage.com/Care/medshell.htm

Something that a lot of people on here recommend is another antiseptic called Hibiclens. Hibiclens is an antiseptic liquid hand soap for people. It's available in the pharmacy section of a store like Walgreens. It's similar to a hand wash used in hospitals. I used it on Spot's shell and he's almost completely well now. I like Hibiclens because it's easy to find, inexpensive (about $10 for a bottle that will last a long time) and effective.

Dilute a couple of tablespoons of Hibiclens with an equal amount of water. Get a soft toothbrush. Holding your turtle firmly over the sink, gently rub the Hibiclens solution all over her shell with the toothbrush. Be gentle. Drizzle a little of the solution in the arm and leg holes with your fingers so as to get some solution on the areas you can't reach with the toothbrush, being very careful not to get any on her head or face.

Your turtle will be slippery and wiggling so hold her carefully and near the bottom of the sink so that if you do loose your grip she won't fall far.

Then rinse her off very thoroughly with cool tap water. After I've rinsed my turtle thoroughly, I fill the sink part way with clean water and let him float in it for a minute just to be sure I've gotten everything off. The Hibiclens is a soap and will be very irritating if not rinsed well.

Repeat this every day for 10 days.

I think you should also dry your turtle out some. This is called drydocking. Since fungus and bacteria thrive in moist environments this helps with the cure. Get a box or big tub that your turtle can't climb out of. Put a soft towel in the bottom and get another to cover the top with. At night, put your turtle in the box to sleep and put the box in a safe, warm, dark place. Put the other towel over the top of the box. In the morning, the turtle goes back into the tank. Do this three or four times.

Different people on here do things a little differently. I hope anyone who has a different idea will please speak up and share their opinions with you too!

[SpotsMama]

Dreambubbles, I also left you a private message. Don't forget to check for messages!

[dreambubbles]

I have 3 other turtles, so 4 in total. They're all babies. The tank holds about 2.5 gallons. They all eat and bask regularly. I'll go get a UVB light for them and raise the temp of the basking area.

Looking at the picture though, there's little white squares that look like their on a different layer than the shell. What is that? Is he losing part of his shell?

[dreambubbles]

I don't think humidity's a problem. I live right by the ocean and I don't keep the top on to their tank.


This is the same turtle as the first one. Here he's just getting out of the water. (White is not nearly as noticable). That bottom white square scute next to the black, is that fungus?


These are the other 3 turtles.

[SpotsMama]

You know, there's not near enough space and water for all those turtles. They need a whole lot more space. The rule of thumb is a gallon of space for every inch of shell. If each of your turtles is 1 1/2 inches long, that's 6 inches of turtle, so they should have a 60 gallon tank! And they're just going to keep growing!

Never fear, though. A solution that's quick and cost effective is a stock tank which is a large rubber tub. There are inexpensive even for a really big one. If you are in a position to be able to get a large glass aquarium, then that's wonderful. But if you're not, a stock tank is a good alternative. Some people even prefer them for turtles because it may seem more natural to a turtle to have opaque walls instead of clear ones.

It's important to get a large enough container for two reasons. One is that the turtles will feel cramped with so little space. They will probably start fighting each other being crowded like that. The other reason to have a bigger tank is that it's going to be next to impossible to keep the small one clean. A lot of water dilutes the turtles' waste so it's not so concentrated, which is very important for the turtle's health. I would guess that a major reason your turtle is having shell problems now is that the container has been too small.

Lot's more to think about!

[marisa]

Well, that's a cute bunch you've got there. The other 3 don't appear to have those white patches on the shell...Did you buy them at the same time? When did the one start developing the white patches? They really do disappear when the shell is wet...I don't know if that one patch next to the black scute is fungus.

You have all of them in a tank that holds 2.5 gallons? They really need more space. A stock tank is better, but since they're babies, you could for a while keep them in something like a Rubbermaid storage container. You won't be able to fill it up with supporting the sides well, and there can be problems with leaks eventually, but if you're strapped for money, they are cheap and easy to clean.

[urbancleopatra]

do you condition the water after cleaning the tank out? if the turtle's shell in the top pic is completely dry and it looks all white like that then maybe there's too much chlorine in the water drying out its shell. I may be completely wrong but it's a possibility.