General Care Discussion :: bendable shell.....that ain't right

[RunninWideOpen]

hello,

well, I was examining spike today to make sure he didn't harm himself in his recent adventures, and I noticed that his shell seems to be very soft and flexible in the back. It's not squishy, at just flexes. Particularly out towards the back. It's mostly the back half of his shell. It's not isolated to a particular spot.

his shell doesn't look really good right now. I believe he's getting ready to shed. He has a lot of green spots around the edges of the scutes, which I think might be algae growing underneath where the scutes are starting to lift?

I'm getting pretty concerned about the softness....or flexibility of his shell. I noticed it when I first got him, but it hasn't really improved. It's been about 3 months.

Any ideas? He's a great basker. Hasn't basked a lot in his new home yet (at a friends house) but he's started too. He doesn't really touch his cuttlebone though.

[DavidY]

Baby turtles tend to have softer shells in general especially towards the tail. It should get stronger and harder as he reaches adult size (how old is he?). Does he eat any leafy green veggies yet? That's where a lot of their calcium comes from. Also I assume he has a UVB light in his new home? Make sure to check the temperature of his basking platform so that it's about 10 degrees warmer than the water. If it's too cool, he won't be as likely to come up and bask.

[SpotsMama]

A turtle has to be exposed to good levels of UVB in order to metabalize calcium, so for their shells to harden and their bones to develop normally they must have adequate levels of calcium in their diets and bask under a good UVB light.

It's also important that they not eat a lot of certain foods that will impair their ability to absorb calcium. Check out the first paragraph on this link, which explains what foods can cause problems with calcium absorption:

http://www.redearslider.com/nutritional_content.html

So, as your turtle grows, keep these guidelines in mind and his shell should harden and his bones develop as they should.

[RunninWideOpen]

Well, he is over a year and a half old. That's as far as we know, becase thats when the people who gave them to me got him. But, they said the guy who gave him to them had had him for a little while also. He's only 2.5" long tho.

He does have proper UVB and heat lighting. I gave them a complete setup and set it all up for him. The basking temp is about 92. All the conditions in the tank are exactly the same as when he was at my house. I think he just needs to get used to his new home more. I am going to build him an out of tank basking area today though, so he can't escape on us again.

He has been eating lettuce since I got him a few months ago. He gets either romaine, red leaf, or green leaf everyday. He's getting Reptomin Baby pellets every other day, and about twice a week he gets mealworms instead of pellets.

Would it be a good idea to dust his mealworms with a calcium supplement? He is fed by hand, so it won't have much time to wash off in the water.

[SpotsMama]

Well that kind of worries me. I believe the shell should normally harden up within the first few months of the turtle's life. At least it's that way for a RES -I don't know about a map.

The diet sounds good except it's heavy on the mealworms. Skip those mealworms and instead stick with the pellets. Give him a calcium gut-loaded cricket or two every couple of weeks.

Can you tell more about your UVB light? What brand and strength is it? How long have you had it? What sort of fixture is it mounted in and how far away is it from the basking platform? You mentioned Spike is a great basker but that he hasn't basked much since you've had him - how much does he bask these days?

How are the other turtles' shells?

If Spike were a RES he'd be pretty small for a turtle that's a year and a half old. Maybe it's normal for a map. Do you know if he has ever been checked for parasites?

[marisa]

If you haven't done so recently, can you post a pic of the shell?

RES's scutes are somewhat pliable, especially the marginals above the tail, and the shell doesn't really harden up until around a year of age. Maps are also generally smaller turtles relative to RES when fully grown.

I wouldn't bother with mealworms, even dusted with calcium supplement. They suck the calcium out of the system. Try an earthworm, cut up. You could even moisten the Reptomin Baby and coat it with the calcium supplement to add calcium to the diet. What supplement are you using (RepCal is preferable to Reptocal). It would also be good to vary the diet even more than you are now.

How old is the UVB light you're using? What brand is it?

[RunninWideOpen]

Actually Spike has basked a ton since I've had him. He's been up there a good 6 hours a day. Last week I relocated him to a friend's house, so that's where he is now. They're taking care of him, but I check on him every few days. He's just starting to noticibly bask there, which is expected since he was moved. I'm sure he'll start basking like normally within another week.

I use Exoterra UVB 5.0 lights all 4 of my setups. Spike's is about 10in away and about 1 month old.

Thanks for the info on the mealworms! I'll cut back on the mealworms for all my turts. I cannot find earthworms anywhere around here. No where in my town, and I've driven an hour both directions and couldn't find them there either. The stores are saying that the breeders aren't getting very many this year. How do super worms compare nutritionally?

He and Donny (RES) are both very small for their age. I got them together from a different friend who had no idea how to take care of them. A guy that was going to Iraq just dropped them off at their house and they were clueless. Never really did any research either. Spike and Donny are very lucky to have survived in the conditions they were in. I got them in March with RI, got some antibiotics right away and they've both made full recoveries. Both are starting to grow, Donny's growing much faster than Spike though. I don't think he's ever been checked for parasites.

I would kind of expect Donny to grow faster than Spike. Map turtles generally got to be around 6"-8" long, not 10" or 12" like RES.

I bought Reptocal....should I take it back? What's the difference between them?

All of my RES' shells are very healthy. Even Donny's seems good and strong. Donny is in shed right now.

I will try and get a pic of his shell next time I am over there. There's nothing visually wrong with it that I can tell. He's got some algae growing underneath some scutes that are starting to shed.

Thanks for the help! I think I answered all the questions?

[DavidY]

I wonder what the pH of the tank water is? I know if you soak a chicken bone in vinegar overnight, it will lose it's stiffness. The acid eats the calcium and the bone basically turns into cartilage.

[marisa]

Reptocal contains phosphorus, RepCal does not. A turtle gets a good amount of phosphorus in the diet, so you really don't need to be adding more.

Is it possible to dig up some earthworms from an area you know is pesticide free? If not, do you have a Walmart near you (it seems everybody does)? See if it has a refrigerated bait section. I've occasionally fed my turtles Canadian Troutworms (same as earthworms) from Walmart, and they've done fine with them; cut them up to make them easier to eat.

The Exoterra 5.0 is a tube flourescent? If so, you can have it closer than 10 inches away. Six to eight inches would be better. If it's a compact flourescent, I'd still have it closer than 10 inches. If you're worried about distance, try 8 inches.

[RunninWideOpen]

Oh, never thought of that David. The PH in my tanks here are staying right around 8.1, but I think they might be on a well. I will take my water testing stuff next time!

I don't know where earthworms would be around here....you find them in pretty moist soil, right? I'm kinda in the desert. There is a small lake up the mountain a little ways, maybe up there? No Walmart here, our city council denied them, lol. All we have is a kmart, which no longer has a live bait section (checked last week).

I have one 18" tube light, but the one on Spike's tank is a compact, coiled light in a ceramic fixture with a white interior. I will try to move it closer, not sure how much closer I can get it with the out of tank basking unit i created. Should I go to the 10.0 if I can't get it much closer?

[marisa]

If it's only a month old, I don't think I would. Getting him outside in good weather would help as well.

[DavidY]

If you can find a bait and tackle shop you should be able to find worms there.

[RunninWideOpen]

What additional ways would you guys suggest I add variety in the diet? I'm trying to offer everything I can.

[DavidY]

The diet you mentioned sounds pretty good already. You could try another brand of pellets that you could add once or twice a week. Since Spike is so small you should probably go ahead and have them feed him pellets every day. Also mix in some different kinds of veggies once in a while like carrots, collard greens, dandelion greens, etc. Also try minnows or guppies, snails and ghost shrimp.

[RunninWideOpen]

I do carrots once a week, forgot to mention that. I was feeding them everyday, but I noticed Donny started to pyramid a little, so I put them both on every other day.

Spike's not shown any interest in fish yet. He's got guppies, a pleco, and some small silver fish in with him. He's quite scared of the pleco, lol.

is there a particular type of snail that would be good for him with his shell condition?