Habitat - Outdoor :: 20 Questions

[Kookala]

My sons were given 3 baby (1/2' - 1") RES last spring. We only planned on keeping 2 but, I figure I've kept a passel of vermin alive over the years and most of the people I know hold exotic pets burials about a year after getting them... so I just aint giving one up. Just aint gonna do it.
They are such little pigs they are now HUGE (3" - 1 1/2")! They are healthy and friendly but desperately in need of a bigger home like months ago!
They are currently in a 20 gal. aqarium with a waterfall and basking bridge. The waterfall is set at the top of the tank so they have maybe 3" clearance when basking (assuming they don't pile up). We were planning on putting them in a 120 gallon indoor aquarium (it's ready to go but the filter pump).
BUT since we live in a temperate region I now think an outdoor turtle pond is the way to go for these little devils.
Tampa has a beautiful set-up http://www.redearslider.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=335
with limited space, existing concrete and walls like we do.
I've got a 6' south wall that has an inverted L shape area of dirt below it (the lower arm is 4'x4' the long arm is 5'x2.5'). I'd like to extend my long arm area by a few feet over the concrete with a waterfall, then drop to a stream that gradually deepens to 2' then drops into the lower arm for 3'. I don't have escape or predator issues and we can expand by building an above ground U shaped water bridge around a tree in the future.

SO.... 20 questions time. I'm sorry if my questions are redundant or stupid.

1) Is the proposed outdoor pond enough for 3 mature RES?
2) Should I transfer them to the bigger tank outdoors now?
3) How hot is too hot for the water temp?
4) Do they really need that one plant (starts with an A) that kills algea?
5) If I transfer them to the bigger tank outdoors now with they be ok in 75 deg. water with weak sun for basking until I can set something better up or do I have to go full blown basking set-up now?
6) Is it terrible that I want to toss a couple of small fish in there for food?
7) Do they need the "muck" or can I keep the pond clear (if I can)
WTH am I gonna do if my siblings have babies? Are they going to have two heads?
9) Anything I should NOT plant around or in the pond?
10) The only thing I use now is Stress Coat and prefiltered water. Can I keep doing that?
11) When they are ponded do I still pull them to feed AM and PM pellets and vegtables in a seperate container, or do you toss food in and skim? I'd hate to turn them feral through noncontact... these are our babies babies.
12) One of these pups might bite us one day, how bad is it going to hurt?
13) I'd LOVE to go Alternative Energy! I've looked and talked to a few people with fish ponds and so far I get that they just don't perform. Does anyone have amn alternative energy set up that does?

I think that's it for now with only 13 Questions ; )

Really, thanks a bunch for sticking with us this far,

Kook, Wolf, Zig, TC and
BoBear, Ezmerbitya, Sunny, Sable, Boggle, Piper, Tom, Flippy, Flappy, Floppy, Herman, Blue, and Vernon.

[kmichael55]

I can answer a few:

2) I would not ever use a glass tank outdoors, it will get too hot and overheat.

3) I've heard anything above 84 degrees will start cooking the turtle

4) I think you are thinking of Anacharis, which doesn't really kill algae (to my knowledge) but will help oxygenate the water, and feed on the nutrients that are feeding the algae, so it will reduce it. It's not necessary, but turtles LOVE to eat it, and it's easy to grow.

5) Same as #2, wouldn't do it, imagine being in a glass box outside in the sun.

6) No, go ahead, they are fine as treats. (Not too often, they contain a lot of protein) Rosy Red Fat head Minnows are great, as well as guppies...however goldfish are much too fatty, and I've heard there's a problem with the amount of copper in their scales.

7) I don't see why they would need the muck... it is tricky keeping a pond clean though!

8 )They won't be inbred or anything, but if any of your females become gravid and lay eggs, I would just toss them out. You don't want more than you can handle, and you don't want to unnecessarily add to the huge unwanted turtle population.

9) Make sure the plants are turtle safe. There is a list in the feeding section. Use Anacharis, Hornwort, other things that are safe to eat, don't use anything poisonous. (Usually if a plant has very colorful leaves it is poisonous)

10) Not sure about the stress coat, do you use dechlorinator?

11) You should not be feeding them twice a day, unless its veggies. I would assume once they are big enough to be in the pond you would only be feeding them pellets every other day at the most. I would also assume it would be very hard to remove the turts to feed in a separate container, so I would just throw the pellets in personally.

12) Mine are still little guys, so I'm not sure, but I'm sure it hurts pretty bad!

[FLhaven4strays]

1) Is the proposed outdoor pond enough for 3 mature RES?
**They need 10 gal of water per inch of turtle & RES can grow to about 10"... so for 3 turtles you'd need about 300 gal - plus nesting grounds if you have female(s)

2) Should I transfer them to the bigger tank outdoors now?
**same answer as previous poster - NO glass tanks outdoors

3) How hot is too hot for the water temp?
**75-80 is good, you don't want to vary it too much. In the summer I have to add cooler water & more floating plants to my 125 gal pond (I'm in FL - the Tampa Bay area) to keep the temps right.

4) Do they really need that one plant (starts with an A) that kills algea?
**I don't know of any plant that 'kills' alge. Anacharis? Most turtles love to eat it and it's good for the water & cheap too ($2 or less for a bunch) but it's not necessary. My turtles like water hyacinth roots better, but they're banned in FL (too invasive). I use water lettuce & anacharis. I've heard it's best for a small pond to have 60-75% of the water surface covered, and I just add the surplus plant to my compost as they multiply. A little bit of surface alge in an outdoor pond is GOING to happen. It's actually a good sign. I remove the alge "carpet" buildup from my waterfall every few weeks, but nowhere else do I have that much. Some gets on their basking rocks & a bit on the pond sides, but not enough to bother with. Actually, I've seen the turtles eat it where it grows dowin into the water from the falls. (Ugh!) Though I do have 2 large (12+") plecos that help, I'm sure.

5) If I transfer them to the bigger tank outdoors now with they be ok in 75 deg. water with weak sun for basking until I can set something better up or do I have to go full blown basking set-up now?
**Don't put them out in a glass tank - you can put them out for a while each day in a large plastic container w/ a makeshift basking area if you don't have the right lighting...but glass can cook them no matter how much coverage you provide. Where are you? Right now where I am the sun is still full strength & temps mid 80's. Depends on the weather if you can put them out or not.

6) Is it terrible that I want to toss a couple of small fish in there for food?
**not unless you expect them to live. I use mosquito fish to eat the mosquito larve, and the turtles eat the fish. I also like to add cheap reddish "feeder fish" (NOT goldfish...little minnow-like fish) Most tuttles like the chase & some fish can give them excercise & amusement

7) Do they need the "muck" or can I keep the pond clear (if I can)
**Don't add anything to the pond 'muck-wise'. Some will build up on it's own, and unless you're trying to hibernate them (not a good idea!!) they don't need it. Some dirt will get in & sink, I don't usually bother it

WTH am I gonna do if my siblings have babies? Are they going to have two heads?
**Dunno - prev poster says no. I assume it happens in the wild though...
9) Anything I should NOT plant around or in the pond?
**I ran a search on plants poisonous to turtles before digging my pond & got some surprises, like marigolds. Pothos (philodenderon) are poison too, but I can't remember most of them. Do a search before planting the area where your guys will have access. ~~I recommend a hibiscus personally. Mine like the flowers as an occassional treat, and the shrub can be kept pruned small & low for them to hide under when out of the water.

10) The only thing I use now is Stress Coat and prefiltered water. Can I keep doing that?
**When I do water changes I just use regular water from the hose & add either stress coat (has dechlorinator) or regular dechlorinator. Haven't had any problems, but I've not researched that road....

11) When they are ponded do I still pull them to feed AM and PM pellets and vegtables in a seperate container, or do you toss food in and skim? I'd hate to turn them feral through noncontact... these are our babies babies.
**I feed pellets to mine every other day - I'll hand feed the first few, and dump in the rest. I've learned to gauge how many to feed & any leftovers will get taken care of by the minnows & 2 plecos (bottom feeders) I have in there. Mercer likes to scavenge the bottom for sunken pellets too. I feed their veggies daily. Liza begs as soon as someone walks by - no matter what. You'll still have plenty chances to handle them, don't worry!

12) One of these pups might bite us one day, how bad is it going to hurt?
**Liza is nearly 9" now (penn cooter - she'll grow to over a foot long) and enjoys being hand feed. She gets my thumb fairly often, and sometimes even shakes it like a shark trying to get the food. So far no blood - not even bad pain. She's gotten my 4 yr old while hand-feeding too, and the kiddo laughs it off. That's not to say a bad bite won't happen - I'm just saying a bite is not always a horrid experience. I wouldn't try hand feeding a known 'biter' though. That's just askin' for it! Handle them with care!

13) I'd LOVE to go Alternative Energy! I've looked and talked to a few people with fish ponds and so far I get that they just don't perform. Does anyone have amn alternative energy set up that does?
**No idea.

You said your turts are about 1.5" - 3" now? Just curious, but are you measuring from the front of the shell to the back?...cause I'd be very hesitant to put any turtle under about 3+" outdoors w/o a VERY safe enclosure. Raccoons, cats, dogs will all be curious. I've even seen large egrets fishing in our pond. And you'd have to be pretty careful if you want them to remain outside all winter. I'm in central FL and it can be done here (with lots of care!), but I imagine any further north at all & they'd have to be brought in for a few months at least.

Here's my pond area, though I'm getting ready to expand the fenced land area around the pond to accommodate a larger nesting site:
http://www.redearslider.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12418
(the pond pics are below the ones of my son's new hatchling) You can see the alge on the large 'white' center rock & the waterfall

[Kookala]

Thanks so much for your help! Sorry it has taken so long for me to respond. I have been back to read it when shopping but, haven't posted untill now
So, considering our climate, all the info I have on RES and the awesome info I've been given here by you, viewing multiple ponds and speaking to other turtle pond owners locally... we start digging our 8'x4'x3' in/above ground pond, using the PowerFlo 5000, MagDrive 1800, floating island and basking bridge tomorow.
We're moving the babies to a kiddie sand box surrounded by chicken wire on Monday. Heats not an issue right now for them, I can keep them at 75 until their pond is built in (pray with me) two weeks and they will get 6 hours of natural light that way. Because the area the pond is going in gets indirect light I'll add a fountain in the summer and pull it in the winter to be replaced by a heater. Charles at Paradise Fish has turtle ponds so he has a budget and will get me what I need for plants, he's really knowledgable (Bonus, he likes to Bonsai). I really want to try to Bonsai a mangrove tree in there. We're not sure what kinda UV we're going with yet.
OH! And I've learned sooo much about their food and vitamins!

So THANK YOU! You're advice and opinions we're extremely helpful!

[SpotsMama]

Kookala, you must now provide pictures.

[Kookala]

Count on it, Spots! Work went slow today, I only dug out two barrels before we had to go to my birthday lunch. My 9 yr old helped for about 3 shovels full. Rocky, hard clay! I may have to hire a guy to help me dig for a day. My husband is swamped this week and I want the concrete work done this weekend.

[SpotsMama]

Oh by all means hire a guy. That's what we did. People who do this for a living have tools.

[Kookala]

Uggg. I have the tools, just not the back for it. I'm going to save my money for unexpected expenses. I've soaked it (the ground and my back as I took a few more out today) though and I have all day tomorow to work on it. The good news is the new kiddie tank is staying at 74 degrees after it was filled with the hose. I needed new carbon for the filter and I wanted to let the water settle in at a temp so the little guys will go in it tomorow. I think I'll hit the plant store and get some floating plants for it too. I'm kinda worried now that this is too much change too fast for them. If I give them a few places to hide right away though they may adjust better and I might pull them back in at night when I feed them untill their new pond is built. I tell ya, I'll be watching them like a hawk

[DocShay]

About the biting, it doesnt hurt all that much - a slight pinch but nothing to bad. Its more of a shock than anything, my turtle caught me off gaurd when I was picking him out of his tank and bit my finger - I almost dropped the poor guy. Learned my lesson, be prepared!

[focus12221]

I agree with DocShay about the biting, its a giant surprise but doesnt hurt, just be careful not to drop him/her. Oh I also have a small snapper turtle, tell you what, Do Not get bit by one of them, they hurt a lot more lol. (But they are easier to take care of)